I'm told that it's a good idea to pattern ammo CC ammo on what local LEOs use. I don't think I'll necessarily choose exactly what they do, but it would be good to know. Does anyone know what firearms and ammo are issued by the Orem and Provo police departments? For that matter, if you happen to know for other departments, I'd be interested in reading that, too.
Police issue guns and ammo - Provo and Orem
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You can carry whatever sidearm you wish. Don't get caught in the Glock trap (I want a Glock because that's what LEOs use and I hear they are very reliable). Get a sidearm that fits you and is comfortable and easy for you to use.
As per ammo choices, you can carry just about whatever you want. Generally it is advisable to carry something similar to what the LEOs use, or in other words, hollow-point ammunition. The whole reason behind this is not because LEOs use it, but because of the round and it's properties. You don't want to overpenetrate and you want as much of the energy as possible to be transferred to the target, increasing the damage to the target and decreasing the need for multiple shots while still being able to penetrate clothing, etc. Any line of hollow-point would be satisfactory for a courtroom defense (which I think is a moot point and overly emphasized).
The real issue is what round works best in your firearm? What feeds reliably and gives you good groupings? This is something you have to test for yourself. Don't worry about what Provo/Orem PD use, that's worthless information. Instead, try some of the major brands in your sidearm and see which you like the most:
Speer Gold-Dot
Federal Premium HST
Cor-Bon DPX
Glaser Safety Slug
Black Hills Ammunition
Hornady TAP
Remington Golden Saber
There are more, but these are the most widely used. Go get a couple, take them to the range and try them out.
As per ammo choices, you can carry just about whatever you want. Generally it is advisable to carry something similar to what the LEOs use, or in other words, hollow-point ammunition. The whole reason behind this is not because LEOs use it, but because of the round and it's properties. You don't want to overpenetrate and you want as much of the energy as possible to be transferred to the target, increasing the damage to the target and decreasing the need for multiple shots while still being able to penetrate clothing, etc. Any line of hollow-point would be satisfactory for a courtroom defense (which I think is a moot point and overly emphasized).
The real issue is what round works best in your firearm? What feeds reliably and gives you good groupings? This is something you have to test for yourself. Don't worry about what Provo/Orem PD use, that's worthless information. Instead, try some of the major brands in your sidearm and see which you like the most:
Speer Gold-Dot
Federal Premium HST
Cor-Bon DPX
Glaser Safety Slug
Black Hills Ammunition
Hornady TAP
Remington Golden Saber
There are more, but these are the most widely used. Go get a couple, take them to the range and try them out.
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Yeah, sorry, rereading that I realize people might not understand what I meant. Here's take two:
Don't just buy what LE use because LE use it. This goes for guns (Glocks), ammo, lights, tactical gear, shoes, etc. I think it's smart to look at what LE use and try to determine why. If you agree with their reasoning (best gear for the price) then sure, get it. I just hear a lot of people saying they are going to get a Glock because "if it's good enough for LE, it's good enough for me." I think that's a pretty lame reason to buy a specific sidearm, kind of like saying, "I don't really know anything so I'm just going to buy what someone else likes."
There are so many different firearms out there that it really behooves you to go and check them out - at least the majority of them - and see which one you REALLY like and make a great, informed decision.
Of course, this is all just my $0.02.
Don't just buy what LE use because LE use it. This goes for guns (Glocks), ammo, lights, tactical gear, shoes, etc. I think it's smart to look at what LE use and try to determine why. If you agree with their reasoning (best gear for the price) then sure, get it. I just hear a lot of people saying they are going to get a Glock because "if it's good enough for LE, it's good enough for me." I think that's a pretty lame reason to buy a specific sidearm, kind of like saying, "I don't really know anything so I'm just going to buy what someone else likes."
There are so many different firearms out there that it really behooves you to go and check them out - at least the majority of them - and see which one you REALLY like and make a great, informed decision.
Of course, this is all just my $0.02.
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That is so true, I know people who buy what others tell them to buy or what LEO use. They they end up not happy with that weapon, are they get rid of it. As stated do not buy because old Joe as one, are that is what LEO carries. Rent what you think you will like, shoot it and they decide. What I like you may not. A weapon is like a good woman, just have to find the right one.Dustin WJ said:
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For years I wanted to buy a Glock 22 .40S&W because that is what cops and the FBI use. Then I got to sit down for an interview with an FBI Special Agent out of the Provo FBI Office. I asked him about his sidearm and it was, indeed, a Glock 22. I said I wanted to buy one and he asked, "Why?" I told him because I wanted to train with the weapon that police agencies and mainly the FBI use because that is the field I was getting into. He told me that was all good but to remember that if you buy a weapon that is issued by the department you are getting into then you'll have two of the same weapon. I found that interesting.
Now, I know not many are studying in the field of Criminal Justice and want to go LEO and FBI but I do and thought about that. I also kinda had the same talk with a captain from Orem PD. During this time I had looked at the Glock 23 and the been introduced to the Springfield XD-40.
As the Golden Rule to gun buying goes -- Shoot It Before You Buy It -- I did just that. I determined that even though I want to be a LEO and future FBI Special Agent that the Springfield XD was the gun for me.
I currently carry a Glock 17 9mm for my job as a license armed security officer and have noticed a difference between my work and personal weapon. I can tell you that I really like my Springfield. Though heavier then the Glock it was the gun for me.
As for ammo right now I'm shooting at the range Blazer Brass (just a step above the cheaper Winchester) and still have not found a round that I really want to carry in my weapon for personal defense.
But yeah, as said before, it is good to go close to what LEOs carry but find something that you like and will enjoy shooting and carrying.
Now, I know not many are studying in the field of Criminal Justice and want to go LEO and FBI but I do and thought about that. I also kinda had the same talk with a captain from Orem PD. During this time I had looked at the Glock 23 and the been introduced to the Springfield XD-40.
As the Golden Rule to gun buying goes -- Shoot It Before You Buy It -- I did just that. I determined that even though I want to be a LEO and future FBI Special Agent that the Springfield XD was the gun for me.
I currently carry a Glock 17 9mm for my job as a license armed security officer and have noticed a difference between my work and personal weapon. I can tell you that I really like my Springfield. Though heavier then the Glock it was the gun for me.
As for ammo right now I'm shooting at the range Blazer Brass (just a step above the cheaper Winchester) and still have not found a round that I really want to carry in my weapon for personal defense.
But yeah, as said before, it is good to go close to what LEOs carry but find something that you like and will enjoy shooting and carrying.
I did a side-by-side comparison of Glock and Springfield XD. Since I already had, and loved, a 1911, I wanted something fairly close to that in handling. The Glock was like trying to aim a brick at a bullseye. The XD was quite like the 1911. I guess I have that particular hand structure.GeneticsDave said:
Right now, I'm leaning heavily toward Speer GD Short Barrel ammo for my XD SC. For my 1911, standard LEO Speer +P 230gr for carry and WWB for practice seems like a good combination.GeneticsDave said:
As far as the original question goes, I'm really more interested in ammo choice than the firearm itself. I mean no offense by this, but to a degree, I suppose that police departments have to tailor their choices so they work for the worst shooter on the force. On the other hand, being able point to common practices in local LE has legal benefits, according to a very nice and glossy magazine I read.
After talking with a state deputy, I concluded that the police are really not a good example for a lot of things. My conversation with him started with the question of whether he would have any concerns about buying a former issue gun gun from a police department. He said he would have no concerns, and that I should expect to see plenty of external wear, with almost perfect-- "virtually unfired"-- internals. He was somewhat familiar with my practice routines, and said that they far exceed the average officer's practice. I found that disturbing.
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I've never really understood the "carry what LEOs carry" mentality.
Why? Because they will carry the best? Not necessarily. Because they will carry the best bang-for-the-buck? Not necessarily.
There are MANY reasons why a department chooses a specific weapon, including political and economic. Some officers may not use the department weapon. Some departments or divisions in departments use different weapons and even different calibers.
Which brings me to my biggest issue with the "carry what LEOs carry" idea: they carry everything. Depending on which department and which division and which officer, you'll see nearly every type of gun in nearly every caliber, from .38 to .45 and everything in between. Secret Service shoots .357 SIG. CHP shoots (and practically invented) 10mm. Most departments shoot the .40. LAPD's elite SIS division shoots .45. US Military shoots 9mm. So if you want to carry what LEOs carry, then it seems like you should carry whatever you want. :dunno:
I can't think of ANY reason to carry what the local police carry... other than the extremely rare possibility of being near them in a gun fight and being able to throw them another magazine because they ran out or something. :ack:
Why? Because they will carry the best? Not necessarily. Because they will carry the best bang-for-the-buck? Not necessarily.
There are MANY reasons why a department chooses a specific weapon, including political and economic. Some officers may not use the department weapon. Some departments or divisions in departments use different weapons and even different calibers.
Which brings me to my biggest issue with the "carry what LEOs carry" idea: they carry everything. Depending on which department and which division and which officer, you'll see nearly every type of gun in nearly every caliber, from .38 to .45 and everything in between. Secret Service shoots .357 SIG. CHP shoots (and practically invented) 10mm. Most departments shoot the .40. LAPD's elite SIS division shoots .45. US Military shoots 9mm. So if you want to carry what LEOs carry, then it seems like you should carry whatever you want. :dunno:
I can't think of ANY reason to carry what the local police carry... other than the extremely rare possibility of being near them in a gun fight and being able to throw them another magazine because they ran out or something. :ack:
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I still think it's more important to carry ammunition that is reliable and feeds well with consistent groupings than it is to carry what your local PD do. If they use Speer in their Glocks, who's to say that the same Speer will perform well in your XD? Try out a few different brands (spend a little money) and make the comparison yourself. It doesn't really matter what brand of ammo you use, the only minor issue is that the rounds are manufactured for self-defense (i.e. hollow points).
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:agree: Dave you are right about ammo choice. Not only ammo but good bullet placement. One can have the best weapon and ammo made, but if you can not hit the target, they are useless. But it is different hitting a target under stress, you need to fire at targets while stressed. While not the same as under fire I think a shooter should try some form of combat competition. This puts you under some stress and will let you know your strengths and weakness. Just me .02.
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I know that Highway patrol had Federal HST. I know this cause i buy my ammo from their supplier and I got the same stuff they use. I didn't chose this ammo cause they use it. I chose it from my research and testing. I fired 100 rounds of it through my gun to test the recoil, point shooting, and reliability.
Beretta Cougar 8040 that my brother in law bought has nice engraving in gold letters UTAH HIGHWAY PATROL. When we went shooting I did couple of MAGS with his gun and did not like the trigger action at all, it's twice as heavy and has twice the travel"distance" of my XD and none of it's safety features. To be honest it has no safety features at all none. I guess everybody has their own preference and after trying Glock at Doug's I still like my XD the best. Few days ago I had a witch read my palm and she said she can see a Springfield 1911 in a not too distant future with my name on it :swat:
*Edited as per request from GeneticsDave (just kidding)*
:swat:*Edited as per request from GeneticsDave (just kidding)*
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:thijack:Eddie_XD9 said:
Just a pet-peeve, no offense intended...
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I just want you guys to learn the correct terminology. I looked stupid for so many years calling mags "clips" - I don't want anyone in the "community" to think less of you
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It would be the same as calling a rifle a gun. Just like in boot " this is my rifle, this is my gun, one is for shooting and one is for fun".
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Yet you despise "Gun grabbers"? :lol2:rdoggsilva said:
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