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Ok, I would have posted this rebuttal on the original post but Carknocker closed it before I got that opportunity. That said I would like to add the following concerning the police raid gone wrong in Minneapolis:

Any Law abiding citizen who sits at home minding their own business and doing no wrong, upon hearing windows break and doors being broken in, has every right, responsibility and reason to first believe that it is an unlawful B & E, a possible thief, a rapist or worse some terrorist group (and yes, government can be classified as such on occaision) bent upon destruction or mayhem.

I read the article and the wife said she was watching tv and she heard some voices, then windows were broken in and she fled to her husband on the 2nd floor. He grabbed a gun, as is his right & duty, in order to defend his family.

No where is this story does it say that the police identified themselves before the windows were broken in--which probably did not happen until after the exchange of weapons fire where-upon the father put his weapon up and was promptly arrested, later released pending the normal investigative procedures of this type of incident.

Now I know I used the term terrorist in my original response, which of course gained some wild eyed fanatical obfuscation. Please note that I said all reasonable and lawful citizens would do what is necessary when confronted by an unknown element of society when their home is broken into. This home owner did nothing wrong, he only protected his family, who here wouldn't do that? Until the threat was discerned to be the police, this man did everything right, when he discovered the offenders of his homes peace were police he surrendered in order to stave off fears of his complicity in the crimes which the police, even though at the wrong house) were there to discern or eliminate.

The founding fathers said that it was better to err on the side of the constitution and the people rather than to allow a right to be violated. I agree with them & will always cry out against unlawful no-knock warrants, which was never specifically mentioned, though it was alluded to in the article. No knocks violate our most sacred right to peace in our own homes and to have security of self, papers and effects with the only option to be lawful search warrants and to always err on the side of the citizen.

Yes our police have some very difficult situations to deal with, and they most of the time do an admirable job at it. It is we the citizens of this country which have the right to be treated properly, the police are to respect those aspects of the constitution and uphold the law, no-knocks violate that. I have many officers, both retired & in service who agree with me and who wish they were eliminated as well--for the same reasons.
 

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It's generally bad form on a forum to re-start a thread that has been closed but I'll let this one run unless it degenerates like the other one did. That means no gratuitous cop-bashing, name-calling or denigration of everyone in a particular profession. Keep the thread focused on the topic of the Minnesota incident, please.

Thank you.
 
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Car Knocker said:
It's generally bad form on a forum to re-start a thread that has been closed but I'll let this one run unless it degenerates like the other one did. That means no gratuitous cop-bashing, name-calling or denigration of everyone in a particular profession. Keep the thread focused on the topic of the Minnesota incident, please.

Thank you.
I dont recall "That means no gratuitous cop-bashing, name-calling or denigration of everyone in a particular profession." in the previous thread. Why was it closed?
 

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Eukatae said:
I dont recall "That means no gratuitous cop-bashing, name-calling or denigration of everyone in a particular profession." in the previous thread. Why was it closed?
For the following comment:
I also find it interesting that the first policeman where hired thugs who's job was to facilitate shaking people down for money. Isn't it interesting they, for the most part, have the same job today they did 250 years ago?
And referring to all police as "uniformed thieves" certainly, in my opinion, constitutes a personal attack on those of our members who are in law enforcement and thus is a violation of forum rule #5:
No posts that use abusive or vulgar language, particularly personal attacks on members of this forum, are allowed. We can and certainly do disagree on issues, but it is expected that we can do so in a civil manner.
Might I suggest that, in the future, questions regarding moderator's actions be addressed in the proper forum - Rules, Comments, Complaints, and Concerns - rather than driving a thread off-topic with such concerns. If you have further comments on my decision to close the thread, please start a thread in the indicated forum.
 

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So just to catch up, where did this happen and when? I grew up in a UHP house, had run-ins with local PD and am now a medic on a SWAT Team. We have supported some SWAT teams that had less than solid intel but to hit a wrong house!
 

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Khang said he grabbed the shotgun from a closet and fired three shots out his bedroom door. When his sons yelled at him that the intruders were actually police, he put down his gun and put his hands in the air.
Aren't immigrants required to have some basic understanding of the English language? :?: Thank God nobody was hurt!

All six of the children, ages 3 to 15, were home at the time.
"The whole family is badly shaken and still trying to understand what happened," Moua said. She and Khang showed reporters five broken windows and 22 bullet holes.
Who wouldn't be shaken!! Here's a link to another article on this tragedy.

The Minneapolis police chief declined comment and the mayor's press person decline comment on his behalf. Police are now conducting an internal affairs investigation and a likely question will be what did police do to verify what the informant told them.
 

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Ruger Collector said:
........Aren't immigrants required to have some basic understanding of the English language?...........


That was the funniest thing I have heard in a long time.



Tarzan
 

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Ruger Collector said:
Aren't immigrants required to have some basic understanding of the English language? :?:
To acquire citizenship, yes. But that seems somewhat discriminatory since natural-born citizens are not required to speak or understand English.
 

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Car Knocker said:
Ruger Collector said:
Aren't immigrants required to have some basic understanding of the English language? :?:
To acquire citizenship, yes. But that seems somewhat discriminatory since natural-born citizens are not required to speak or understand English.
Our cultures and descent are varied. Without a common language we cease to be a Nation..

[URL=http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/nation?view=uk:36z9cw30 said:
Compact Oxford English DIctionary[/URL]":36z9cw30]nation
• noun a large body of people united by common descent, culture, or language, inhabiting a particular state or territory.

â€" ORIGIN Latin, from nasci ‘be born’.
And without a common language, rare tragedies like this are inevitable...
 
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Ruger Collector said:
Car Knocker said:
Ruger Collector said:
Aren't immigrants required to have some basic understanding of the English language? :?:
To acquire citizenship, yes. But that seems somewhat discriminatory since natural-born citizens are not required to speak or understand English.
Our cultures and descent are varied. Without a common language we cease to be a Nation..

[URL=http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/nation?view=uk:1okm2agv said:
Compact Oxford English DIctionary[/URL]":1okm2agv]nation
• noun a large body of people united by common descent, culture, or language, inhabiting a particular state or territory.

â€" ORIGIN Latin, from nasci ‘be born’.
And without a common language, rare tragedies like this are inevitable...
No offense but are we really going to blame the guys mastery of English for this little incident?
 

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Not at all. Nor should we blame the police for the bad intel... But we can learn from what went wrong and try to prevent it from recurring.

 
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