With a CFP you can open carry with a round in the chamber. It has always been that way. Maybe someone else knows the appropriate links to Utah Code.
question about open carry?
I was under the impression that even a cfp holder, if they were open carrying had to have the gun in the unloaded state as per utah law. but i just read on opencarry.org that a cfp holder could open carry loaded and it was mentioned on here also. If i open carry my xd .40 or my glock or my FN can i have a round in the chamber? Has this always been this way or was it changed recently. When i took my cfp class from impact guns in 06 i believe the instructor said if we open carried the gun could have rounds in the mag but none in the chamber. would like some clarity on this from you very knowledgeabe people since i may open carry sometime just for fun. I open carry in the mountains all the time but have not yet in town.
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Yes, fully loaded OC with a CFP. I and someone else last weekend clarified to an instructor at Ogden Impact that this was the case, he was under the assumption that it had to be unloaded, he knows better now, lol
"CWP's are exempt from the evils of carrying a loaded or concealed firearm, they may, by inference carry OPENLY AND LOADED ! "
this is a direct quote from Mitch Vilos Utah gun Law 3rd Edition page 56.
Great book, highly recommended, as stated throughout this forum. :gun6:
this is a direct quote from Mitch Vilos Utah gun Law 3rd Edition page 56.
Great book, highly recommended, as stated throughout this forum. :gun6:
The CFP does three things for you. It allows you to:
1) carry a concealed firearm,
2) carry a loaded firearm, and/or
3) carry on school grounds.
1) carry a concealed firearm,
2) carry a loaded firearm, and/or
3) carry on school grounds.
Honestly, I don't understand the failure of *SOME* (yes, I know not all... *MY* instructor seemed VERY well educated as do the ones here) instructors and LEO's to understand the most basic concepts with regards to Utah Weapons Laws. I just got serious about RKBA about a year ago, and only decided to get a handgun and a CC permit like 7 months ago and first read the laws at that time... and I have to say, they really aren't that hard to understand. That any instructor would think you have to carry unloaded to OC even though you have a CC permit is something I just don't understand...
friendly reminder ..Something my instructor didn't tell me that I found very necessary to know, especially to all hunters in UT... WITHOUT a CFP you can NOT possess a firearm in a school zone unless locked in a gun rack or in a case, even if it is unloaded. (zippered cases don't count) I don't know about you, but I drive thru 2 school zones going to work and 2 going home.
Punishable up to 5 years in prison, and if convicted you could lose the right to possess a gun or ammunition for life.
Safest thing to do is get that permit. And study / know the laws.
Punishable up to 5 years in prison, and if convicted you could lose the right to possess a gun or ammunition for life.
Safest thing to do is get that permit. And study / know the laws.
Read U.C.A. 76-10-523. I am too lazy to link it, but it is the source of CFP exemptions.
I've attempted to summarize exactly what laws we are exempted from with a CFP. Check it out in this thread:
What does a Utah Concealed Firearm Permit (CFP) give you?
What does a Utah Concealed Firearm Permit (CFP) give you?
I think what happened is this. Since you need a Concealed Firearm Permit to carry a loaded weapon, people think you must conceal it because that is what the pemit is titled. This is why HB473 would have been nice to have.
:agree:SGT Jensen said:I think what happened is this. Since you need a Concealed Firearm Permit to carry a loaded weapon, people think you must conceal it because that is what the pemit is titled. This is why HB473 would have been nice to have.
Yeah, it would have been nicer to have it. 8)SGT Jensen said:I think what happened is this. Since you need a Concealed Firearm Permit to carry a loaded weapon, people think you must conceal it because that is what the pemit is titled. This is why HB473 would have been nice to have.
YES YOU CAN as a CFP holder. It has always been this way.ammosargeant said:I was under the impression that even a cfp holder, if they were open carrying had to have the gun in the unloaded state as per utah law. but i just read on opencarry.org that a cfp holder could open carry loaded and it was mentioned on here also. If i open carry my xd .40 or my glock or my FN can i have a round in the chamber? Has this always been this way or was it changed recently. When i took my cfp class from impact guns in 06 i believe the instructor said if we open carried the gun could have rounds in the mag but none in the chamber. would like some clarity on this from you very knowledgeabe people since i may open carry sometime just for fun. I open carry in the mountains all the time but have not yet in town.
Title 76-10-505, 76-10-502.
Look into Title 76-10. It will help you alot.
TJ
This is NOT true:Cowboy said:friendly reminder ..Something my instructor didn't tell me that I found very necessary to know, especially to all hunters in UT... WITHOUT a CFP you can NOT possess a firearm in a school zone unless locked in a gun rack or in a case, even if it is unloaded. (zippered cases don't count) I don't know about you, but I drive thru 2 school zones going to work and 2 going home.
Punishable up to 5 years in prison, and if convicted you could lose the right to possess a gun or ammunition for life.
Safest thing to do is get that permit. And study / know the laws.
So you are safe on your drive.76-10-505.5. Possession of a dangerous weapon, firearm, or sawed-off shotgun on or about school premises
(3) This section does not apply if:
(d) the possession is:
(ii) in any vehicle lawfully under the person's control, other than a vehicle owned by the school or used by the school to transport students
:nilly: Help;now I am really confused.I apologize if my post was incorrect in any way, I would never want to mislead anyone and the laws are complicated at best.I based my comment on information taken from Utah Gun Law 3rd Edition. Mitch has a quiz in his book dealing with the gun owners gauntlet, on page 17,question 29 he asks a true or false question about the school zones and hunters ( Answer:TRUE ) and on page 24 answer 29 ( TRUE ) he adds the details.I entered my post based on this question and answer thinking I understood it.Ok can you people who have this book or have more knowledge of the law than myself please help clear this up for me. :shock: Thanksxmirage2kx said:This is NOT true:Cowboy said:friendly reminder ..Something my instructor didn't tell me that I found very necessary to know, especially to all hunters in UT... WITHOUT a CFP you can NOT possess a firearm in a school zone unless locked in a gun rack or in a case, even if it is unloaded. (zippered cases don't count) I don't know about you, but I drive thru 2 school zones going to work and 2 going home.
Punishable up to 5 years in prison, and if convicted you could lose the right to possess a gun or ammunition for life.
Safest thing to do is get that permit. And study / know the laws.
So you are safe on your drive.76-10-505.5. Possession of a dangerous weapon, firearm, or sawed-off shotgun on or about school premises
(3) This section does not apply if:
(d) the possession is:
(ii) in any vehicle lawfully under the person's control, other than a vehicle owned by the school or used by the school to transport students
Please don't confuse State law and Federal law. What you've quoted is the section of the Utah Code dealing with guns at schools.xmirage2kx said:This is NOT true:
So you are safe on your drive.76-10-505.5. Possession of a dangerous weapon, firearm, or sawed-off shotgun on or about school premises
(3) This section does not apply if:
(d) the possession is:
(ii) in any vehicle lawfully under the person's control, other than a vehicle owned by the school or used by the school to transport students
What Cowboy is referring to is Federal law. Here's an explanation of what is called the Gun-Free School Zones Act of 1990 at Wikipedia.
It was found unconstitutional, then passed again by mentioning interstate commerce all over the place. The new one hasn't been challenged yet.
The updated law is found in: 18 U.S.C. §922 (q)
Refer to paragraph (q)(2):
Code:
(q)
(2)
(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.
(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm-
(i) on private property not part of school grounds;
(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;
(iii) that is-
(I) not loaded; and
(II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;
(iv) by an individual for use in a program approved by a school in the school zone;
(v) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into between a school in the school zone and the individual or an employer of the individual;
(vi) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official capacity; or
(vii) that is unloaded and is possessed by an individual while traversing school premises for the purpose of gaining access to public or private lands open to hunting, if the entry on school premises is authorized by school authorities.Further note that the way this is worded, your permit must be issued by the state in which the school zone is located. That blows reciprocity in school zones out the window. :bang:
If you are coming from a place that it is OK to have guns and going to a place that is OK to have guns and you drive through a school zone... you are still ok.
is to get and keep the concealed permit. Even then know that it may or may not keep you out of trouble in other States.
And even if your preference is open carry (as I believe a lot of, if not most on this CC forum choose) there are times that without the permit you'd have some explaining to do and hope to be able to.
And even if your preference is open carry (as I believe a lot of, if not most on this CC forum choose) there are times that without the permit you'd have some explaining to do and hope to be able to.
18 USC 922(q)(2)
Links to pertinant gun laws may be found here.
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/922.html(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.
(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearmâ€"
(i) on private property not part of school grounds;
(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;
(iii) that isâ€"
(I) not loaded; and
(II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;
(iv) by an individual for use in a program approved by a school in the school zone;
(v) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into between a school in the school zone and the individual or an employer of the individual;
(vi) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official capacity; or
(vii) that is unloaded and is possessed by an individual while traversing school premises for the purpose of gaining access to public or private lands open to hunting, if the entry on school premises is authorized by school authorities.
Links to pertinant gun laws may be found here.
Please back this up with an authoritative source.xmirage2kx said:If you are coming from a place that it is OK to have guns and going to a place that is OK to have guns and you drive through a school zone... you are still ok.
As it so happens, I believe I know what law you're referring to. Problem is ... your statement is incomplete.
(emphasis added)18 U.S.C. §926A. Interstate transportation of firearms
Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver’s compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.
So, this law does not protect you in a school zone if you don't unload and lock up the firearm. Of course, just get a CFP and you're safe.
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