Utah Guns Forum banner
1 - 20 of 37 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,600 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
OK, so this is an OC question... I'm sorry that this is in the CC forum but it seemed like the best forum for this "?".

In a few days I have to meet some relatives of mine as my father's representative (he lives down south and is blind and can't drive) to receive a very large cash distribution of his part of their parents' estate and then transport that large sum of cash to him.

My CC permit has not yet arrived.

SO... I am considering OC'ing. But I've never ever OC'd before. I'm fairly familiar with the laws, thanks to you fabulous people here, but thought I'd run the scenario past you guys and see how it sounds to you all.

I think I have to meet my aunts and uncles at a bank where the cash will be distributed. I'm going to go freshly-shaved, well-dressed with a tucked-in shirt and no jacket. I will wear my XD9 on my belt at about 3 o'clock. I will have a full magazine but without a round in the chamber. I will enter the bank in that appearance, gun fully showing, conduct business and leave. This is in the OGDEN area.

For transiting in my vehicle I will remove my firearm just prior to entering the vehicle, remove the magazine and place the magazine in my pocket. I will place the fully unloaded firearm in my center console next to my gear-shifter while I drive, removing it as I get out of my vehicle and inserting the magazine into the firearm.

I will never chamber a round (unless needed, of course).

Your thoughts?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
237 Posts
Sounds 100% legal to me. The only question is whether or not the bank tellers will freak out. My guess is that they won't and will probably think you are some "off-duty cop." Let us know how it goes.

Speaking of banks. Last time I went to one was to get a cashier's check to send for some guns I was buying online. I was surprised when the teller asked me about the guns I was getting (he saw that the check was going to East Coast Firearms). He, evidently, was big into guns as well. He told me he had just picked up a Tommy gun the other day (semi-auto :( ) and was eagerly awaiting his 21st birthday so he could get his concealed permit. The other bank teller thought it was funny that we were so into guns. It's always nice to meet fellow gun nuts around town.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
124 Posts
From what I know about OCing without a CC permit it sounds like you've mapped it out pretty well. Make sure you let us know how it turns out. Althought most likely it will be uneventful, which is a good thing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
208 Posts
I think if you really need protection, a buddy with a permit might be the best route. If you are not used to OC, you have the issue of weapon retention(the holster and techniques). And, you will never have one in pipe-which would be best in a pinch.
Most of all, I think it's a shame you can't do whatever you want.
Al
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,616 Posts
I'm not a lawyer of course, but it sounds legal to me.

On a different note, why don't you get the cash converted into a cashier's check made out to your father right at the bank? That way, you won't be carrying a great deal of cash on your person. Seems to me that would be safer.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,195 Posts
Sounds perfectly legal and above board. Just remember that if the bank is a Federal Bank, you aren't allowed to OC or CCW. The thing that confuses a lot of people is the words "federally insured." This in no way is a statement that a facility is Federal, only that accounts are protected to 100,000$ per account in that bank. As long as it is not the "First Federal" or some similar Federally chartered bank you will be ok.

I agree that it would be best to either take someone who has a ccw, or convert the cash to a cashiers check. This would keep many things safe for you and would eliminate suspicion by those you may encounter.
Whatever you decide, good luck.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,203 Posts
As an avid OC-er what you described will work just great. Since the gun is "Unloaded" even with the mag in the gun (no round chambered) you do not need to go to the extra length of removing the mag from the gun. However if it makes you feel safer or more legal then go right ahead and remove it and even the slowest LEO wouldnt be able to argue with you.
The only thing I have ever found to be an issue with OC is your shirt comming untucked when you move around to much, so just check it every so often if you think this may be an issue for you. It is quite common in utah to see people OC, and you probably will not even get a 2nd glance from most people. Be safe, Be smart and have fun.

Any Utah OC questions can usually be answered here:

Opencarry utah

Hope to see you at the Lunch on the 17th

Lunch meet
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,323 Posts
Jeff Johnson said:
I'm not a lawyer of course, but it sounds legal to me.

On a different note, why don't you get the cash converted into a cashier's check made out to your father right at the bank? That way, you won't be carrying a great deal of cash on your person. Seems to me that would be safer.
A BIG + 1 on the check from me. :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,600 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thank you for every one's response!

I'm still debating OC'ing. I may just "OC" but leave it in my car while I duck in and out of the bank (with OC and knife on me and using my eyes and ears plenty). I don't doubt the legality of OC'ing, only that I've never done it and my first experience would be in as touchy a place as a bank and in front of family members who haven't seen me in quite a while and some of whom, from what I recall, are pretty sheople-ish.

In response to the check thing... for reasons I'd rather not get involved with in such a public forum (plus I get sick of talking about it), my father (step-father, actually) does not have identification & refuses to use banks. So, a cashier's check is largely out of the question. Also, for those same reasons, I do not wish to absorb his money in my name to only later cut it to him in cash in a more remote, smaller-town bank; I don't want my money mixed with his and then have some tax-implication get tied up with my money. I just want to help him out and transport the money to him, but the legality of the money I want to be entirely his (to the best of my knowledge, there are no taxes due on this money; however, I want to avoid any responsibility for it just in case).

- So, the check thing seems out.

- And I'm not sure I'm comfortable OC'ing for my first time in a bank in front of relatives, especially since a few may be a little hostile to the idea. Again, I'm quite sure it's legal -- what I'm not sure of is my ability to handle any situations that may arise in a smooth enough manner to deflect trouble (even if not legal, familial).

- The friend thing is out since I have no friends, that I'm aware of, who CC.

- As to my ability to retain the weapon; I'm comfortable with that aspect since I did receive weapons-retention training as part of my military training; whether I could go day in and day out every day OC'ing and remain constantly vigilant enough to OC is another question, but for such a brief time as this I'm sure I could maintain my focus on my surroundings and ability to respond to a grab were it to occur.

So, I'm still pondering the situation. After sleeping on this last night, it seems to me that if I'm not very comfortable with the situation perhaps I shouldn't go into it. I'm much more comfortable with the prospect of being pulled over by an Officer and discussing the gun issue were the situation to come up than I am about being confronted by bank security/management/police in front of hostile relatives (who, quite frankly, could possibly be the ones to escalate the matter).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,203 Posts
If you are having doubts then it might not be the best 1st time. make a wal-mart nacho run first :D
 
G

·
However legal it is, I'm always hesitant to open carry. The reason: Some stupid ideas are just waiting to become laws. All y'gotta do is give people an excuse to push for it.

I've never seen a law that criminalizes open carry -- but I've never talked to a cop who thought it was a good idea. And I do know there are plenty of LEO's who can conjure whatever reason they want to arrest you.

Also: If you start open carrying, it sets a precedent that it's culturally acceptable to do so. Then idiots who have no business touching guns in the first place will feel tempted to carry. If they're open carrying and you're concealed-carrying, they've got a speed advantage over you when they choose to go all Virginia Tech on your case.

The way I see it, if a third (or more) of the population were to start open carrying, it would be a step toward a better society. However, as things are, open carrying introduces too many other cultural problems to be worth it.

I wish, more than anything, that our society was mature enough to handle open carry. It just feels too risky to me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
I'm not sure how I want to respond to this post . . .

Ishpeck said:
However legal it is, I'm always hesitant to open carry. The reason: Some stupid ideas are just waiting to become laws. All y'gotta do is give people an excuse to push for it.
You could use that same logic to argue that concealed permits should be outlawed or even guns should be banned in general. Are you saying because we lawfully exercise our right and others don't like it then we might loose that right? I don't understand your logic on this at all. Maybe it is just me not understanding what you are saying.

Ishpeck said:
I've never seen a law that criminalizes open carry -- but I've never talked to a cop who thought it was a good idea. And I do know there are plenty of LEO's who can conjure whatever reason they want to arrest you.
I have never talked to a cop that thought it was a bad idea either. The part about LEO's conjuring up reasons to arrest you is insulting to cops. Most cops are pretty good guys and if you follow the rules, even if they don't like it, will be agreeable. If I am within my rights to do something and a cop "conjures up something" to arrest me . . . sweet. I'm going to get a free pile of cash.

Ishpeck said:
Also: If you start open carrying, it sets a precedent that it's culturally acceptable to do so. Then idiots who have no business touching guns in the first place will feel tempted to carry. If they're open carrying and you're concealed-carrying, they've got a speed advantage over you when they choose to go all Virginia Tech on your case.
Isn't that a precedent we as gun owners want? I want it to be culturally acceptable to carry a gun in public. In my department at work of 20 people, 2 carry concealed. I would like that to be more like 10 or even everyone. I want every law abiding citizen that can legally own and carry a firearm and has the defensive mindset to do so. The rest of the argument I can't even relate to you on. Again, maybe it is just me.

Ishpeck said:
The way I see it, if a third (or more) of the population were to start open carrying, it would be a step toward a better society. However, as things are, open carrying introduces too many other cultural problems to be worth it.
So, how would a third just start to open carry. One day we wake up and it happens? So, is this third just the people you deem NOT to be idiots? I don't understand. In order to step toward a better society you have to start at step one. You even say that 1/3 population open carrying would be a step to a better society. So, in order to get there, we need to remove that stigma by being seen open carrying. I choose not to open carry, but I applaud those who do.

Ishpeck said:
I wish, more than anything, that our society was mature enough to handle open carry. It just feels too risky to me.
I do wish our society was more mature, but I don't feel it is too risky. If it was too risky, it would be outlawed. It isn't, so carry on.

One thing I will say, it does take a different type of person to open carry. I don't open carry except out in the woods because I think it is a tactical disadvantage during defensive situations. But, to each his own.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
237 Posts
I agree with Sup3D that it would be nice to make open carry culturally acceptable. One of the best ways to do so is to "desensitize" the public by open carrying. However, I think there is a time and place for open carry. In certain cases, open carry could hinder our cause. For example, I think it would be unwise to openly carry at the U of U or at an elementary school. Although it is 100% legal, you might as well kiss your open carry rights goodbye. Within hours of finding out, anti-gunners would be pushing an open carry ban through the legislature.

Ishpeck said:
If you start open carrying, it sets a precedent that it's culturally acceptable to do so. Then idiots who have no business touching guns in the first place will feel tempted to carry. If they're open carrying and you're concealed-carrying, they've got a speed advantage over you when they choose to go all Virginia Tech on your case.
I'm not certain that criminals or idiots would really have a "speed advantage" if they were open carrying. Most criminals are smart enough to have the gun in their hand before they make their moveâ€"it wouldn't matter how they had been carrying it 10 seconds previously. I even think it would be better if criminals/idiots carried openly. That way there wouldn't be any element of surprise. You would be able to tell they were armed (possibly even before there was a conflict). If someone carrying openly started to go nuts, you would already know he had a gun and could act accordingly.

Either way, in this case bane has no choice but to open carry, so he might as well do that instead of breaking the law by carrying concealed.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
1,552 Posts
I have to agree with Sup3D. I would LOVE to see a lot more folks carry openly. I've only carried openly twice in public. I have also carried openly in my own yard and while hunting MANY times.

However, I do feel a slight tactical DIS-advantage when open-carrying. I feel as if there are more eyes on my weapon.

Out of sight, out of mind.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,203 Posts
Ishpeck said:
Then idiots who have no business touching guns in the first place will feel tempted to carry. If they're open carrying and you're concealed-carrying, they've got a speed advantage over you when they choose to go all Virginia Tech on your case.
There are a LOT of very stupid people in this world. I would be more likely to have an intelligent conversation with a brick than with 2/3 the people I see in Wal-Mart on a Thursday afternoon. But it is every one of our basic human rights to be able to own and bear arms. This mean I don’t care if you can’t figure out how to put on pants in the morning, I am still for your right to carry a firearm. That being said; anyone who shows a lack of responsibility or endangers another person’s life while carrying should and will lose this right. Just like if I were to murder someone I would lose my right to freedom, if you abuse your right to a firearm then you lose it. To assume that a person is not capable to own or carry a firearm without cause is the same as throwing someone in prison so they don’t commit a crime. Carrying open or concealed is the same choice as to carry or not carry. Just because someone doesn’t think you should carry a firearm does not mean you shouldn’t, that is your choice. If you don’t think I should carry open, that wonderful because that is your choice and this country was built on that kind of freedom. However to tell me I am wrong IS wrong; and while you are entitled to your opinion it is only that, an opinion. If it moves beyond an opinion and it starts to remove or attempt to remove my god given rights it become an oppression and must be battled with the same urgency and dedication that our founding fathers fought to establish and keep this country.

Ok, I will get off my high horse now. Having reviewed history the worst laws created have always started with a “ :twisted: good idea :twisted: ” that takes away our rights in the name of safety.

Not targeting you Ishpeck, just that one statement, I know you are on our side (pro 2a).
P.S. if you are worried about a speed advantage it just means its time to spend more time at the range… Keep me in mind if you need someone to go with. :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
125 Posts
Someone, Not me i am not eloquent enough, should write a wallet card to give to people when they have questions about OCing so i don't have to stumble all over myself trying to explain it. I could tell them its legal and hand them a card.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,600 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
xmirage2kx said:
There are a LOT of very stupid people in this world. I would be more likely to have an intelligent conversation with a brick than with 2/3 the people I see in Wal-Mart on a Thursday afternoon.
Man, if *THAT* isn't the truth! This reminded me of an OC incident I observed a few months ago at my local Wal-Mart. I am unsure what model or brand it was that the guy was carrying but seeing the tip of his *LIGHT-SABER* sticking out of the bottom of his trench-coat sent shivers up my spine! I really think we should consider introducing legislation to prohibit grown men who insist on wearing lightsabers to Wal-mart from climbing behind the steering wheel! :p
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,563 Posts
Perhaps it was just as well that he was carrying a light saber rather than the real deal.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,203 Posts
May the force be with you.

There is only one day a year where wearing a lightsaber is acceptable, that’s today (Halloween)

Unless of course they have found a way to make a real one, Then the geek in me might just have to buy one.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,600 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
BTW, to reach some closure on this thread... I found out from my Aunt that I wasn't going to be required to be at the bank for the withdrawal and could actually meet her anywhere for the transfer, which I promptly told her I'd rather not meet at the bank... so she suggested we meet at a local TARGET!!!! :shock: I couldn't believe it! I told her that considering the nature of the transaction that I really didn't think that was a good idea and that we should just meet at her house... you could tell she hadn't even thought about safety or security through any of this and said, with a voice that sounded like the light just clicked on, "oooohhh, I hadn't thought about it but you're right, I guess meeting at Target WOULD be a bad idea!"

<DUH>! :roll:

So we're meeting at a private residence, dilemma resolved.

Thank you to all for their feedback, however!
 
1 - 20 of 37 Posts
Top