I know these don't pertain to concealment but I thought this would be a good place to ask. I want to buy a new varmint gun and jump into the AR market as well. I've never owned an AR style rifle so I need your input. I'm hoping some of you own a varminter in either of the manufacturers listed. What are the pros and cons compared to a bolt action style rifle (besides cost). I want a .223 and will use it for varmints and plinking. Thanks for your ideas and input in advance.
Rock River vs. Bushmaster?
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1,590 Posts
The ARs are the most red blooded American, downright fun to shoot 223 that the law will allow. One downside besides cost is weight, once you get it all decked out with accessories (quad rail, laser, spotlight, optics, 100rd mag etc..), they get a bit heavier than the average bolt action plinker. But the sheer exhilaration of shooting it more than makes up for all of that.
Taking an AR nighttime varmint hunting in Juab County with a spotlighting permit is a blast!
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Taking an AR nighttime varmint hunting in Juab County with a spotlighting permit is a blast!
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1,191 Posts
Bushmaster :lol:
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1,191 Posts
Ford or chevy... It's not even a real question. If you want a truck go ford, if you want a car go chevy. :twisted:PW said:
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1,317 Posts
I just got a Bushmaster for Christmas. (Yes, I know I have committed a cardinal sin by not posting photos yet, but here it is in the product catalog).
What they others have said is true - it is an absolute ball to shoot. I went rabbit hunting in Idaho last weekend and shot probably 40 rabbits. And it only took me 300 rounds.
I haven't had that much fun hunting in a long time and I hunt a lot.
I have a red dot scope on it and will soon be adding a vertical grip and a surefire light.
What they others have said is true - it is an absolute ball to shoot. I went rabbit hunting in Idaho last weekend and shot probably 40 rabbits. And it only took me 300 rounds.
I haven't had that much fun hunting in a long time and I hunt a lot.I have a red dot scope on it and will soon be adding a vertical grip and a surefire light.
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1,382 Posts
I had a bushmaster for 7 years. Great rifle! I recently sold it and bough a left handed Stag.
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How's that for strange, huh? I am left eye dominant, so holding a rifle to my right eye feels unnatural, but I can fire a pistol from my left or right hand. So I choose to carry on my right side.tapehoser said:
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·Of the two Bushmaster, RRA doesn't chrome line their barrels (if your going stainless target this doesn't matter).
You know there are many many more AR builders out there.
Below pictured is an
Larue upper,
LMT lower,
Lulja 18" stainless mid contour barrel,
Magpul CTR stock and MIAD pistol grip,
MSTN quiet control break,
PRI charging handle,
Young national match bolt carrier and fitted bolt,
Larue ring mount,
Night force 2.5-10x scope (illuminated reticle),
PRI carbon fiber forestock,
Timney trigger 12 oz (its only available in 3-4 pound I had to do the trigger work to get it down to 12oz),
PRI adjustable gas block,
I run as light a system as possible. I have a modified standard carbine buffer (1.9 oz) and have removed material from the bolt carrier to reduce weight. This is contrary to conventional wisdom which suggests that a heavy system is best. Light weight means it cycles faster and causes less movement of the rifle by recoil during the recoil event.
I promise you a factory Bushmaster is nothing compared to a build like this.
It shoots 3/8-5/8 MOA 5 shot groups with Blackhills 77gr match (i have yet to bother loading my own for 5.56x45)
It is very light (I think about 7 lbs but I am too lazy to weight it), and I can put two rounds on target VERY fast because it moves so little due to recoil.
Due to its light weight I can get on target very quickly despite the long barrel.
About all you need to do to make a varmiter out of it is change the stock, optic (something like the Nightforce 3.5-15 on the AR10 above) and add a bipod (if you really want one).
Problem is it will cost more than your Bushmaster. But as they say "you can buy it once or you can buy it twice".
The lower rifle in the picture.
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You know there are many many more AR builders out there.
Below pictured is an
Larue upper,
LMT lower,
Lulja 18" stainless mid contour barrel,
Magpul CTR stock and MIAD pistol grip,
MSTN quiet control break,
PRI charging handle,
Young national match bolt carrier and fitted bolt,
Larue ring mount,
Night force 2.5-10x scope (illuminated reticle),
PRI carbon fiber forestock,
Timney trigger 12 oz (its only available in 3-4 pound I had to do the trigger work to get it down to 12oz),
PRI adjustable gas block,
I run as light a system as possible. I have a modified standard carbine buffer (1.9 oz) and have removed material from the bolt carrier to reduce weight. This is contrary to conventional wisdom which suggests that a heavy system is best. Light weight means it cycles faster and causes less movement of the rifle by recoil during the recoil event.
I promise you a factory Bushmaster is nothing compared to a build like this.
It shoots 3/8-5/8 MOA 5 shot groups with Blackhills 77gr match (i have yet to bother loading my own for 5.56x45)
It is very light (I think about 7 lbs but I am too lazy to weight it), and I can put two rounds on target VERY fast because it moves so little due to recoil.
Due to its light weight I can get on target very quickly despite the long barrel.
About all you need to do to make a varmiter out of it is change the stock, optic (something like the Nightforce 3.5-15 on the AR10 above) and add a bipod (if you really want one).
Problem is it will cost more than your Bushmaster. But as they say "you can buy it once or you can buy it twice".
The lower rifle in the picture.
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1,064 Posts
Build your own.... You can put what ever you want/can afford and you learn a lot about them, how they work and what/how to replace when it breaks. If you want help let me know.
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3,725 Posts
fishhawk,
Go look at KSL classifieds. There are usually some really nice, cheap AR's posted there. I would suggest buying a cheap AR. Learn it inside and out then start upgrading it. Most AR's are going to function just fine and you may as well buy a cheap one to start out. Again if you watch KSL you can find cheap good AR's quite often. You just have to check often and be quick when you find a good one. After you get one and become familiar with it, you will find yourself upgrading and buying goodies for it. In no time you will have enough parts kicking around that you can start building another one then you will know enough to build your own and build a nice one. Just my thoughts... You can always turn around and sell the original back to someone else through KSL if you want to also. I think sometimes an ambitious individual could make a living buying the deals off of KSL classifieds, then simply reselling them through KSL again.... Guns sell like hotcake on that site!
-PW
Go look at KSL classifieds. There are usually some really nice, cheap AR's posted there. I would suggest buying a cheap AR. Learn it inside and out then start upgrading it. Most AR's are going to function just fine and you may as well buy a cheap one to start out. Again if you watch KSL you can find cheap good AR's quite often. You just have to check often and be quick when you find a good one. After you get one and become familiar with it, you will find yourself upgrading and buying goodies for it. In no time you will have enough parts kicking around that you can start building another one then you will know enough to build your own and build a nice one. Just my thoughts... You can always turn around and sell the original back to someone else through KSL if you want to also. I think sometimes an ambitious individual could make a living buying the deals off of KSL classifieds, then simply reselling them through KSL again.... Guns sell like hotcake on that site!
-PW
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1,590 Posts
I assume it's full-auto because you've mentioned your concern with cyclic rate previously. I'm really interested in knowing, where on a F/A carrier can you remove material?Eukatae said:
Your black rifle shows marvelous craftsmanship, she is a true work of art. Sadly I can't see the pictures now (the links worked before), even when I paste the whole link I just get a generic no dns entry error.
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·I will attempt to fix dns issue (it should be resolved now but may take time to update to your DNS server).Ruger Collector said:I assume it's full-auto because you've mentioned your concern with cyclic rate previously. I'm really interested in knowing, where on a F/A carrier can you remove material?Eukatae said:
Your black rifle shows marvelous craftsmanship, she is a true work of art. Sadly I can't see the pictures now (the links worked before), even when I paste the whole link I just get a generic no dns entry error.
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I have a select fire AR, it is not the one in question (I have an RDIAS so I could easy run this upper FA by changing the bolt carrier).
I have two cyclic rate issues with which I am constantly tinkering; one to make it light and fast (the AR that is the topic of my previous post) and one I am trying to slow:
My select fire I am constantly trying to slow down; to reduce the $$$ that spews from my barrel and make it more controllable and, because it is also suppressed the gas blow back is considerable. I am also trying to delay unlocking the bolt as long as possible for three reasons: to improve accuracy, to reduce the noise level, to keep that nasty gas out of my face off my gun.
Things on the suppressed select fire AR that I have tried and work:
I made an adjustable gas block, there is a picture on this site of it.
I run an LMT enhanced FA bolt carrier. They are designed to delay unlock. As a consequence they vent more gas out of the receiver rather than inside the receiver.
I run an MGI Rate reducing buffer. I tried hydraulic buffers but the MGI seems to work better.
I run a Dave Tubbs buffer spring.
All those steps have helped; if anyone has other ideas please let me know (short of going to a piston system of which I am reticent).
I chucked my bolt carrier in an endmill and cut nearly 1/16th material from the inside as far up as my tool would reach (about 1 1/8th) then I cut material from the outside starting 1/4" from my inside cut and ending just before the bearing ridges at the front of the carrier. I'll take some pictures of it some time.. I am lazy you know.
Edit to add:
My apolgies for the hyjack!
Also, for those who are interested, I am hooked on carbon fiber forestocks, they are so light its like they aren't even there; and although not as tough as an aluminum rail they are tough enough.
I have a couple monolithic type uppers, an LMT MRP and a Vltor VIS 2. I continue to use the monolithics on my select fire guns for one reason only:
When assembling my uppers I use a 99% silver solution (made for heatsyncs for computers) for the interface between the barrel extension and the upper receiver. This makes an effective heat sync (there is a lot of aluminum in that receiver and rail) great for full auto fire. On my semi ARs I wouldn't switch back to rails for all the tea in China. You can get bolt on rail strips for the carbon fiber forestocks so if you wish to mount something like a vertical foregrip, light, non visible laser, etc, you can. I don't like heavy so I don't hang much on my rifles.
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1,590 Posts
Please post pictures when you can, that sounds very cool.Eukatae said:
Sweet.... I might do that too, though I'll hang on to my aluminum quad rail "just in case" I ever get a rail mount M203.Eukatae said:
Shhhh! Do you want the people who make arctic silver to jack up their prices?!? That's great stuff, I've been using it on my CPUs for about 10 years.Eukatae said:
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·Well that is a good question. It is the best shooting AR I own; can't argue with the results. How much of that can be attributed specifically to the Larue upper.... beats me. It is quite a piece of work thought; if you look closely you can see it is very different from a standard upper and very well crafted. Mr Larue really does seem to take pride in a job well done.PW said:drooooooolllllllllllllll..... Nice. Was the LaRue upper worth the money? (I'm guessing yes, because the LaRue stuff I have is worth the money....expensive, but worth it.)
-PW
***Sorry about the continued hijack, but hey, I can't control myself
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[img]http://wcr.us/guns/18l.jpg[/img]
[EDITED - Please reduce the size of your photos to no more than 640 pixels wide -- Jeff]
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124 Posts
That is sweet i do the exact thing. But if, Or when I buy my stag I'll just get a righty cuz thats what i am used to and i have no problems with it.SGT Jensen said:
I too am interested in aquiring a AR rifle. I haven't had much to do with them since I turned in my M16 many moons ago. I did love shooting that and would like to get a AR rifle for home defense and fun shooting. Not into a varmit one at this point.
The replies are very interesting and I would like to build my own, but back to the original question, if I were to buy one of the store shelf and was putting out $800 to $1000 which would you rather buy, (not thinking of building or up grading just using as is) the RR or Bushmaster?
The replies are very interesting and I would like to build my own, but back to the original question, if I were to buy one of the store shelf and was putting out $800 to $1000 which would you rather buy, (not thinking of building or up grading just using as is) the RR or Bushmaster?
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