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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
There are tons of posts about how everyone CC's but I'd like to direct this question specifically to those who CC with the SA XD-9sub (or similar sized)...

I am pretty much a newb; I am enrolled in the CC class later this month and plan to carry almost all day long. I go to school at SLCC (BTW, if anyone knows how gun-friendly or not SLCC is, I would appreciate some feedback) full-time and I work part-time; my employer allows me to wear practically anything I want, so I wear almost exclusively nice casual clothes but with shirts untucked. I also carry a backpack both to school as well as work.

1) What holster do you CC your XD-9sub in?
2) What holster/method do you think would work best for me?

Also, on the occasional off-chance that I can't CC I was wondering if most of you would consider either of the following as acceptable (and which you think would be best):

1) Stashing my gun in a non-descript bag/backpack in the trunk of my small Honda (which, I can secure the trunk from being entered through the rear seat or with the inside trunk-release latch)

2) Stashing my gun in my backpack and carrying it with me but just not on my immediate person (for example, if I'm wearing something that day that doesn't conceal well).

3) Also, in the case of going to the gym (weight-lifting) -- would it be best to put in trunk or carry around in a small gym bag -- or do some of you lift with a holster on???

Just trying to plan ahead of how best to CC this particular gun... while I'm waiting for my permit to come in I'm planning on getting the holster I think will work best and wearing it empty to get used to it and make sure it seems like it will work.

Would really appreciate the feedback -- also, if anyone doesn't own an XD-9sub/similar but has directed feedback I would appreciate that also.

Thank You!
 

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First of all, welcome to the forum. This is a great place to get opinions and discuss many interesting topics. You will find that the members here are very helpful and beneficent.

Since SLCC (slick) is a state entity (just like other state and community colleges), carrying a firearm with a CFP (concealed firearm permit), or open without one, should not be a problem. They are not allowed to restrict your right to carry or they are in violation of state code. How friendly they are about it could be an entirely different matter.

I have a CompTac C-T.A.C. holster which is very nice and has adjustable cant (what angle the firearm sits on your hip). I find that the C-T.A.C. works best with jackets and coats and not a lot of sitting (so it's mostly a winter holster for me). The SmartCarry can be worn with nearly every outfit and provides extremely deep concealment. I have worked out with it on and even slept with it on (see my post about the pros and cons of SmartCarry). It seems like it would be a viable option for you with the activities you described.

Regarding other storage forms. I would advise that you have your firearm on your person at all times possible. To me, the whole reason for having a CFP is to have a firearm ready to defend myself whenever a situation demands. If you have left it elsewhere, it's not going to do you any good. I would advise against leaving it in a car (short of locking it in a GunVault that is bolted to the frame), as there is too much personal liability if it is stolen (ditto for putting it in a gym bag or backpack). Car trunks are easy to break into (mine was broken into in downtown San Francisco on a main street, the perp and his crowbar were done in less than a minute and all my stuff was gone).

I hope this has been helpful, please feel free to ask any other questions. :)
 

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The safest place for a gun is in your possession! You need to think about your lifestyle and the things you do (you are obviously doing this) then determine how you can carry 24/7. You may need to change some habits to accomidate your decision to carry. I ankle carry and used to always change shoes when I got home from work. Now I keep my boots on until I go to bed at which time the gun goes in my boots right next to my bed. You will figure it out as you go. On the occasional time that I can't carry my gun with me, I try to figure out the safest method of leaving it somewhere. For example when I go to church I leave it home locked in my gunvault. The one I am currently having a hard time with is when I have to run into the post office or am traveling in someone elses vehicle and am going somewhere I can't carry. I must admit I have just left the gun in the car on a number of occasions. I would rather leave it in the car than leave it home, but there is a risk that it could be stolen. Anyway, glad to have you on board! And glad to see you are starting to think about some of the variables in future carry experience.

-PW
 

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bane said:
1) What holster do you CC your XD-9sub in?
2) What holster/method do you think would work best for me?
The first rule of concealed carry is to do what works best for you. We can give you ideas, but your lifestyle, dress, motivations, and feelings should dictate when, how, and why you carry.

I carry the XD-9 SC in a Crossbreed Supertuck. I did a lot of research and it seemed to be the most recommended and highly praised CC holster. I've been very happy with it. Like the CTAC, it also has adjustable cant (you can tilt the handle forward or back several inches and/or up and down). I carry at 4 o'clock. It has a leather back with a Kydex holster attached, which means excellent comfort and great retention. I sit most of the day and while I know it's there, it rarely gets uncomfortable.

It it almost totally invisible under a button up shirt. I also wear fairly tight polo-type shirts and it is still very well concealed. A not-super-tight T-shirt would also work well, as long as you're fairly conscious about leaning over, etc.

In my opinion, if you can't carry, stowing your gun in the car is probably better than making the entire trip unarmed. As others have said, having the gun on your body is always best. I think a backpack or gym bag is much more likely to be stolen right under your nose while lifting, etc., than your car or items in your car. Again, this is your call. You probably could be more liable if someone stole your gun from your person or gym bag than if they stole it while it's securely encased in your car. I also know that thieves tend to look for people putting stuff in their trunk because it's a dead giveaway that there's something of value there.

If I had to stow in a car (I never have), I'd put it in something very non-descript like a shoe box or a hard plastic folder or stained Tupperware and put pretty much in plain view. That way, if someone did break in, they might not even think to look there. Someone's going to look under the seat, in a gun case, glove box, etc. well before they open my lunch container or homework. :D

So, you've got lots of opinions and options - now go and do what works best for you. Your CC course will help a lot in the decision making process.
 

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bane said:
....

1) What holster do you CC your XD-9sub in?
2) What holster/method do you think would work best for me?

....
What kind of Ice Cream should I like?

We can tell you what we use and like, but YOU need to go to a store with a good selection of holsters and try a bunch of them to find out what YOU like.

Tarzan
 

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Tarzan1888 said:
What kind of Ice Cream should I like?

We can tell you what we use and like, but YOU need to go to a store with a good selection of holsters and try a bunch of them to find out what YOU like.
31 flavors!

I personally think you should like Ben & Jerry's Dave Matthews Band Magic Brownies ice cream.

But seriously, Tarzan is right. You should really go down to Gallenson's or Sportsman's Warehouse (or somewhere else) and try on a few holsters. Take your gun (unloaded and in the case) and see what you think.

The only problem with Tarzan's reply is that many holsters are not carried in local retail stores or gun shops. The SmartCarry that I recommended is custom made to fit you and your gun. Some of the best holsters out there are ONLY going to be available to order, not to try (hence why so many people have drawers full of holsters), I personally have 5 holsters.

Check out the Uncle Mike's, Fobus and DeSantis (pricey) and others at the stores, but feel free to ask more questions about what WE like and dislike and why.
 

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GeneticsDave said:
....

The only problem with Tarzan's reply is that many holsters are not carried in local retail stores or gun shops. The SmartCarry that I recommended is custom made to fit you and your gun. Some of the best holsters out there are ONLY going to be available to order, not to try (hence why so many people have drawers full of holsters), I personally have 5 holsters.

....
GeneticsDave is right.

A quick mental count leaves me with 17 holsters. :shock:

With 5 handguns, that is a little over 5 per gun.

I actually use an average of about 3 or 4 per gun, depending on what I am wearing and what I am doing or if I need deep concealment or not.

I have this thing about buying a holster I haven't held in my hands and so I have never ordered one, but I travel a lot and I have bought holsters in 4 different states and 9 different cities.

I do have 2 holsters, my Smart type carry (made from a cloth pancake holster and a web cloth belt) and my hip pack (fanny pack) that work for both my .357 snubby and my full sized 1911.

But bottom line as you go along you will end up with multiple holsters, one way or another.

Tarzan
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Tarzan1888 said:
A quick mental count leaves me with 17 holsters. :shock: With 5 handguns, that is a little over 5 per gun.
Ummmm... forgive me... I'm taking Calc right now so my rudimentary math skills might be a bit warped... but last time I checked, 17/5 = 3.2 as opposed to "a little over 5"... :wink:

Thanks to all for the advice! I appreciated the comments about what you all carry as well as the tip to make sure I go into someplace local and try a few on before I just pick one. I will def. do that.

Looks like I've got some thinking and trying to do! :)
 

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GeneticsDave said:
...carrying a firearm with a CFP (concealed firearm permit), or open without one, should not be a problem...
One quick fact-check here, before somebody gets into trouble. Open carry without a CFP is legal only if the gun is legally unloaded.

Unloaded means that for an autoloader, there cannot be a round chambered. For a revolver, there cannot be a round under the hammer, nor can there be a round in the next chamber to rotate in for a double-action revolver.

Carry safely. Carry legally.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Jeff Johnson said:
GeneticsDave said:
...carrying a firearm with a CFP (concealed firearm permit), or open without one, should not be a problem...
Unloaded means that for an autoloader, there cannot be a round chambered.
Jeff,

THANK YOU for the reminder / clarification... I must admit after reading all of the laws thus-far, and reading all of the comments here covering a whole gammut of issues I *HAD* forgotten that OC'ing w/o a permit still required the weapon be "unloaded"...

Which brings up a point of confusion for me... I went back a re-read the law you cited -- it's clear enough. Then I went and re-read 76-10-505. Carrying loaded firearm in vehicle or on street. -- it's also clear enough. But the question that remains is this: why, given these two citations, did both the gun-shop at time of purchase as well as several posts here and elsewhere, tell me that without a CWP I must transport the *FULLY* unloaded weapon inside it's case (preferrably locked but not required) separate from my easy access (i.e. in the trunk) and with the ammo in a separate storage location from the gun (i.e. keep the ammo in the cab with me -- again, preferred, not required)????

This is confusing and doesn't seem to agree at all with these 2 laws -- is this overkill on these people's part or am I missing something???

In other words, can I keep my weapon loaded laying on the seat next to me or in the backseat in plain view so long as a round isn't actually in the chamber??? It seems like I can... :?:
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Jeff -- Well I found one of those references... a post by you. It is located here

Without a CFP, your gun must be stored in such a way that it is not readily accessible. The center console or glove box don't count. You have to have it unloaded and out of reach, such as in the trunk. You will get yourself in a lot of trouble if you don't understand the law.
...so this leaves me doubly-confused... what am I missing???
 

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The gun shop's recommendations are definitely going well beyond what is required by law.

In Utah, the gun must be:
1. unloaded (two actions)
2. in a container OR if uncased, in the trunk or other area of a vehicle (but NOT in a glove box or console)
3. not readily accessible for immediate use (meaning it's less accessible that it would be if it were on your person)

That's it. There's no restrictions about separating ammo, locking it, putting it in the trunk, etc. You could have the gun in a shoebox on the floor next to you and you're fine.

Although people continually say it's OK, 'clearly visible' or 'in plain view' is nowhere in Utah laws. The above 3 requirements are the law and 'clearly visible' is not a substitution for any of them.

As always, I'm not a lawyer, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express once.

Here's a list of Utah gun laws - http://utahshootingsports.com/utahlaws.htm
Do a search there for 'readily' and 'unloaded' and you'll find all relevant provisions.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
apollosmith said:
As always, I'm not a lawyer, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express once.
:lol:

AWESOME link to the gun laws, Thanks!

But I searched both manually as well as using my browser's "Find" feature for all references to "vehicle" and read every one I could find and I still find no law stating that I cannot have an "unloaded" weapon sitting on the seat in plain view next to me.

The only ref. I found was in the definitions area but that definition was only used with respect to non-Utah residents travelling through the state.

I appreciate your feedback (I really do!) -- but has been stated in this post, *I* must know the law for myself... in my attempt to do that, would you mind citing the actual reference on that page you cited where it outlines the details???

Please understand that I am not trying to be combative about this... it's just that what you have said here I have read/heard similar variants several times over but when I try to correlate it with the laws I can't find the relation... I truly am just trying to get help, not be a jerk...

Thank You again for your input and your link!
 

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bane said:
But I searched both manually as well as using my browser's "Find" feature for all references to "vehicle" and read every one I could find and I still find no law stating that I cannot have an "unloaded" weapon sitting on the seat in plain view next to me.
Yeah, it's all pretty confusing. The problem is that there are two laws that apply, the vehicle law and the concealed carry law.

The vehicle law simply states you cannot carry a loaded weapon in a vehicle. This does not apply if you have a CFP.

The concealed carry law applies regardless of whether you're in a vehicle or not (thus the confusion). This simply states that if you are anywhere other than your home or business, the gun must be unloaded, not readily available, and securely encased. These three things are all defined in the definitions. As before, the concealed carry law does not apply if you have a CFP.

Hopefully that makes sense.
 

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apollosmith said:
bane said:
But I searched both manually as well as using my browser's "Find" feature for all references to "vehicle" and read every one I could find and I still find no law stating that I cannot have an "unloaded" weapon sitting on the seat in plain view next to me.
Yeah, it's all pretty confusing. The problem is that there are two laws that apply, the vehicle law and the concealed carry law.

The vehicle law simply states you cannot carry a loaded weapon in a vehicle. This does not apply if you have a CFP.

The concealed carry law applies regardless of whether you're in a vehicle or not (thus the confusion). This simply states that if you are anywhere other than your home or business, the gun must be unloaded, not readily available, and securely encased. These three things are all defined in the definitions. As before, the concealed carry law does not apply if you have a CFP.

Hopefully that makes sense.
"This simply states that if you are anywhere other than your home or business, the gun must be unloaded, not readily available, and securely encased"
This is not true

76-10-504. Carrying concealed dangerous weapon -- Penalties.
(1) Except as provided in Section 76-10-503 and in Subsections (2) and (3):
(a) a person who carries a concealed dangerous weapon, as defined in Section 76-10-501, which is not a firearm on his person or one that is readily accessible for immediate use which is not securely encased, as defined in this part, in a place other than his residence, property, or business under his control is guilty of a class B misdemeanor; and
(b) a person without a valid concealed firearm permit who carries a concealed dangerous weapon which is a firearm and that contains no ammunition is guilty of a class B misdemeanor, but if the firearm contains ammunition the person is guilty of a class A misdemeanor

This says nothing about an OPENLY CARRIED UNLOADED firearm in your vehicle. and the vehicle law does not restrict this either.

AKA: UNLOADED and VISIBLE = OK
(in utah unloaded in the 2 actions rule)
 

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xmirage2kx said:
AKA: UNLOADED and VISIBLE = OK
(in utah unloaded in the 2 actions rule)
This assumes you are obeying all other laws.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
ApolloSmith... AHA! That cleared it up for me, Thank You for the extra clarification... I took the info you provided, cleaned-up areas that didn't really pertain to the topic and then cross-referenced the fuzzy terms with their provided definitions to render a more length but more accurate wording of the regulation you cited and once I did that I could see exactly what you were trying to say... here is what I came up with (note: the places where I have replaced fuzzy terms with their provided definitions are in bold italics and inside of [brackets] along with the regulation they came from -- the areas that don't pertain are also inside of brackets with ellipses but not bolder or italicized). I figured I'd post the results here since it took a few minutes of cutting and pasting and it might be something to reference back to some other type for some other noob like myself... I must say the law was written in a very ambiguous manner and definitely needs work... for example I would read "property" in the code to include my vehicle but property was not defined and considering the other parts of this code being written to contradict that I would say it's fair to understand that "property" does not mean "vehicle" which is pretty ridiculous... ****, to *LOTS* of people their vehicle is the most expensive piece of property they'll ever own!!!

Also, thanks to xmirage2k as his last post clarified for me that 1(a) did not apply to firearms... I had missed that distinction and was wondering why the seeming duplicity.

But I digress... thank you again for the extra help... here are the results... please someone correct me if I am wrong... maybe one of the LEO's on board could chime in???

76-10-504. Carrying [ “a dangerous weapon that is covered, hidden, or secreted in a manner that the public would not be aware of its presence and is readily accessible for immediate use” (76-10-501.1a) and "which is [not] unloaded and securely encased" (76-10-501.1b) ] â€" Penalties.

(1) [ (... pertains to persons not permitted to have dangerous weapons...) ]

(a) [ (... pertains to violations concerning dangerous weapons OTHER THAN firearms...) ]

(b) a person without a valid concealed firearm permit who carries [ “a dangerous weapon that is covered, hidden, or secreted in a manner that the public would not be aware of its presence and is readily accessible for immediate use” (76-10-501.1a) and "which is [not] unloaded and securely encased" (76-10-501.1b) ] and IS a firearm and that contains no ammunition is guilty of a class B misdemeanor, but if the firearm contains ammunition the person is guilty of a class A misdemeanor.

(2) [ (... pertains to sawed-off rifles and shotguns...) ]

(3) [ (... pertains to persons using concealed dangerous weapons to commit crimes...) ]

(4) [ (... pertains to hunting...) ]
 

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xmirage2kx said:
This says nothing about an OPENLY CARRIED UNLOADED firearm in your vehicle. and the vehicle law does not restrict this either.

AKA: UNLOADED and VISIBLE = OK
(in utah unloaded in the 2 actions rule)
OK, maybe I am confused. We can ignore the "which is not a firearm" because this doesn't deal with guns at all. If so, I read it as, "A person who carries a concealed dangerous weapon or one that is readily accessible for immediate use is guilty..."

To me, this seems to say it's illegal to carry a weapon that is concealed OR readily accessible. If you don't apply it this way, then the readily accessible would apply to NO guns at all.

I'm not sure how you can say that a gun in a car must be unloaded, encased, and not readily available and at the same time say that it can also be in plain view. The two are mutually exclusive.

I'm sure I'm missing something here, but am not sure what.
 

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OK, so I now see how you guys are interpreting this. It was that silly "or" in there that was messing me up. You guys are interpreting it as:

A person who carries a concealed dangerous weapon which is not a firearm:
1. on his person, OR
2. that is readily accessible for immediate use
is guilty of a class B misdemeanor

So, this doesn't apply to guns at all.

But if this is the case, then why does the BCI site clearly state that a FIREARM in a car must be securely encased.

Still confused! Sorry if I'm being thick. I have an advanced college degree and am struggling to get my head around this.
 
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