[Guest]

Any of you guys have any experience with the Saiga rifles?

I have had my heart set on a Springfiled M1A, but I am realizing that for the price of that rifle, I could get a couple of Saiga rifles in various calibers along w/ another gun I want. To me 3 guns for the price of the M1A is attractive but then I don't know much about the quality of the Saiga rifles. I would appreciate any comments based on experience and not just opinion. Thanks.

 

[GeneticsDave]

I know FBMG has them as discussed over on Monster Hunter Nation, but you might want to call down there (801-571-1160) or talk to our FBMG link: FBMG Smithy.

 

[Guest]

Thanks for the advice.

 

[MarshallDodge]

What are you going to be doing with it? Target, Plinking ?

If you are going to use it as a target rifle then I would suggest the M1A. There is a reason the M1A costs three times more than the Saiga and the main reason is accuracy.

If you just want a 308 for plinking you may want to check out the price of ammo first. Last I checked the cheap stuff was around .75 cents a round.

 

[Guest]

What are you going to be doing with it? Target, Plinking ?

If you are going to use it as a target rifle then I would suggest the M1A. There is a reason the M1A costs three times more than the Saiga and the main reason is accuracy.

I certainly do understand the inherent accuracy advantage in the M1A, my reasons for owning the guns may seem a bit strange but here goes, I have always loved precision and shooting at targets will be part of my reason for ownership. But I also always have this urge that I feel I need to satisfy that I want a rifle in various calibers that are functional for defensive/tactical means as well as some hunting. So capacity/manueverability etc are issues. Along this line of reasoning I plan on owning a S&W M&P AR style rifle. I would also like a 7.62x39 caliber rifle as well as a .308. These are the 2 calibers I am considering in the Saiga.To me this covers a broad span of tactical/defensive applications. I as well want to own Kel-Tec's PLR-16 .223 pistol. I would like all the guns to be capable of about 1.5 MOA, except for the 7.62x39 which It might be more realistic to have lower expectations of this round. I have read where the Saiga .308 has been capable of 1.5 MOA accuracy. So, for the price of an M1A, I could have a 7.62x39 Saiga, .308 Saiga and the Kel-Tec's PLR-16. But I understand the need for a quality gun, and I certainly don't want to sacrifice too much in that department. I'd rather own 1 quality gun than 2 or 3 pieces of junk.

If you are not familiar w/ the Kel-Tec http://www.kel-tec-cnc.com/plr16.html

 

[GeneticsDave]

You're going to over pay for that S&W M&P AR15, you should really consider a Stag or Rock River instead. Stag is great and they have them all over the place, particularly at FBMG.

 

[Guest]

You're going to over pay for that S&W M&P AR15, you should really consider a Stag or Rock River instead. Stag is great and they have them all over the place, particularly at FBMG.

Thanks. To be honest, I really have no concept of what is overpaying or not for an AR style gun. The Smith and Wesson is about $800 at gunnies. I know the rock river's are more highly recommended, but I would assume they are also costly, or are you simply speaking what you get for the money versus a what is one of the cheaper AR's I can buy?

PS. Does FBMG Smithy have a website w/ their products? I went to the website in his profile fbmginc.com and it is just a fast cash advertisement.

 

[GeneticsDave]

What you get for the money. Stags are great guns. FBMGs site is down, the ad you saw must be a redirect from your ISP - I get a site not responding page.

Anyways, give them a call and ask what their cheapest AR is and what model it is. They are great people and will answer any questions you have: 801-571-1160.

 

[Guest]

Thanks for the help.

To all out there, I am still open to feedback/advice on the Saiga rifles etc. Why can't I just be rich? I guess I would just want more expensive guns I'm guessing and would find myself in the same position. I'm starting to believe I may not be in control of my desires to continuously add to my collection.

 

[MarshallDodge]

sculpting, I didn't mean to question your purchase, just meant to point out why I would purchase one over the other.

I have heard really good things about the Saiga rifles and for a $300ish gun they are a good "battle/defense" rifle.

The S&W AR's are very well built rifles, according to some forums I have read they are better built than Stag and Rock River. Check into Sabre Defense and LMT while you are at it. Stags are OK from what I have seen. I have not handled a Rock River since about 2005 but on one range trip the three guys I was shooting with had them and they ran all day long without a hiccup. I picked up their brass and it was enough to fill an ammo can so there was a lot of rounds spent that day.

Once again, it all depends on what your purchase is going to be used for. If you plan on running something for tens of thousands of rounds then you want to make sure you get a good gun, with good parts. I have been using an AR in one form or another since 1985 and have never had a parts breakage over thousands of rounds. The only issues have been with parts loosening.

Some will say that the only way to go is Colt. They put some good stuff in their guns but I have seen some quality issues over the years with them as well.

 

[Guest]

sculpting, I didn't mean to question your purchase, just meant to point out why I would purchase one over the other. .

No problem, it is a good question and made me articulate what I actually want. Admittedly, I may not be as informed as I ought to be about AR's but there is so much "fluff" out there about them, that getting to the meat of it and finding good, objective reviews seems a bit difficult. But I guess, unless I will be engaging targets beyond 200 yards or so for defensive purposes, which is pretty unlikely unless the Russians come up through Cuba and I'm stuck in the mountains, peeing in a radiator w/ Patrick Swayze... whoa, got off track. I may just get a gun like the saiga's in .308 and 7.62x39 along w/ an AR and call it good. Thanks.

 

[MarshallDodge]

...which is pretty unlikely unless the Russians come up through Cuba and I'm stuck in the mountains, peeing in a radiator w/ Patrick Swayze... whoa, got off track.

:ROFL:

 

[Mr. Magnum]

The Saiga rifles are just fine. As you already know, not as accurate as the M1 but incredibly tough & reliable and definitely accurate enough for hunting.

Also if your considering the M&P15, they are releasing one this year chambered for 5.45X39. If I had the money, I'd get one in a heartbeat when they hit the market.
Right now surplus 5.45X39 is selling real cheap.

 

[L'attente]

which is pretty unlikely unless the Russians come up through Cuba and I'm stuck in the mountains, peeing in a radiator w/ Patrick Swayze... whoa, got off track. I may just get a gun like the saiga's in .308 and 7.62x39 along w/ an AR and call it good. Thanks.

WOLVERINES!!!

hahaha awesome!

 

[Guest]

You're going to over pay for that S&W M&P AR15, you should really consider a Stag or Rock River instead. Stag is great and they have them all over the place, particularly at FBMG.

Every broken AR I have ever been around was a Colt with one exception, an FN (not Belgian) these of course where military guns. RR did some damage to its reputation when they bought a few minor parts that where not as advertised, not high grade steel but, pot metal.... Over all the make a quality product and its near the top of my list, stag is another great choice, some S&Ws made just before S&W went mostly in house are not so good, otherwise they are quality. Any time something is as popular and everyone jumps on the band wagon there lemons, there are quality guns and there is junk. So much of the AR market is fluff, take the gasbuster charging handle its the most robust precision charging handle around bar none, its a quality product. But, the gasbuster is around 90.00 and a normal charging handle is 10-20.00, this gasbuster was originally designed to keep excess gas from suppressed AR's from blowing into you eye, that's it. These days most suppressor shooters use silicone on a stock handle as it gives a truly custom fit and a better seal. Better than half of these gee-wiz goodies are crap you dont need, ho many times have you seen just a flashlight and a fore grip on a 300.00+ rail system? Flashlights do not need repeat zero's, you dont need a high dollar rail for that, the expensive rails where built for lasers and optics things that need to maintain a zero.

Think and shop before you buy otherwise there will be another cut rate super tacticool gun on KSL where the owner threw away a few hundred dollars (or more) because, what was great in his imagination it nowhere near what he thought it was in reality. You are better off buying ammo than gadgets.

And, for my next rant.........
5.45 is cheap but one of weak points of an AR is it's extractor. Time will tell if it's a problem with crappy steel cases in an AR, prove it to your self before you trust it, an extractor and a spring is cheep insurance.

 

[ProvoGunsmithBrandon]

The Saiga came very highly recommended to me by a man whose experience and knowledge I trust completely. That does not mean that I take his word for gospel, but I know him to be sharp and very reliable in his assessments, and in his opinion, he has seen his Saigas shoot more accurately than the ARs he has dealt with. He cares very well for his guns and does a few unconventional things that I have found to do very well also. I got a Saiga in .308 a little while back and I have been very pleased with it. I have the paratrooper 16 inch barrel on it as well.

 

[troyw64]

I purchased a Saiga 7.62x39 a year ago for defense/plinking, put a side mount rail and a red dot scope on it and with the 30 rd mag I think it looks pretty nice, IMO. have run about 300 rounds though it and have had no problems with it feeding, jamming or anything else and the accuracy is dead on with the red dot scope I have, it's fun rifle to shoot.

 

[MikeTaco]

I own several models of Saiga, two in the process of converting. If you want a gun that will handle any ammo, never jam, pretty accurate for an AK action, and made in Russia, there's no better way to go. Plus, it's true that most .308 is going for .75 cents a round or more, but you're not factoring in cheap wolf ammo, which an Ak will eat up with no consequences. The problem you'll run into now is the fact that they're getting more and more rare since they're not being imported. (Again, this is the 2nd time Russian American Armory has done this)

As for the MP 5.45 upper. I threw one on a RR 2-stage lower, and stocked up on spare ejectors. 2000 rounds in and I have yet to replace a single ejector or have a primer strike failure. It's just a pain to clean the rifle after shooting it.

If you're going to spend the extra money to convert it, you might just want to spend a little bit more on a M1A.

 

[Guest]

I The problem you'll run into now is the fact that they're getting more and more rare since they're not being imported. (Again, this is the 2nd time Russian American Armory has done this)

I have not heard that they recently did this; when, whats up with it, is it another "retool"?

Are you using the tromix bolt on trigger guard? Do you do the welding yourself? Have any advice for a AK74 noob?

I really want a .308 as well and i'm still looking.

 

[Mr. Magnum]

I The problem you'll run into now is the fact that they're getting more and more rare since they're not being imported. (Again, this is the 2nd time Russian American Armory has done this)

I have not heard that they recently did this; when, whats up with it, is it another "retool"?

Are you using the tromix bolt on trigger guard? Do you do the welding yourself? Have any advice for a AK74 noob?

I really want a .308 as well and i'm still looking.

I just reused the original trigger guard on my shoty. No welding needed. If you can use a dremel tool, drill, screwdrivers & pliers you can tackle the conversion.