Saiga rifles.

MarshallDodge said:

What are you going to be doing with it? Target, Plinking ?

If you are going to use it as a target rifle then I would suggest the M1A. There is a reason the M1A costs three times more than the Saiga and the main reason is accuracy.

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I certainly do understand the inherent accuracy advantage in the M1A, my reasons for owning the guns may seem a bit strange but here goes, I have always loved precision and shooting at targets will be part of my reason for ownership. But I also always have this urge that I feel I need to satisfy that I want a rifle in various calibers that are functional for defensive/tactical means as well as some hunting. So capacity/manueverability etc are issues. Along this line of reasoning I plan on owning a S&W M&P AR style rifle. I would also like a 7.62x39 caliber rifle as well as a .308. These are the 2 calibers I am considering in the Saiga.To me this covers a broad span of tactical/defensive applications. I as well want to own Kel-Tec's PLR-16 .223 pistol. I would like all the guns to be capable of about 1.5 MOA, except for the 7.62x39 which It might be more realistic to have lower expectations of this round. I have read where the Saiga .308 has been capable of 1.5 MOA accuracy. So, for the price of an M1A, I could have a 7.62x39 Saiga, .308 Saiga and the Kel-Tec's PLR-16. But I understand the need for a quality gun, and I certainly don't want to sacrifice too much in that department. I'd rather own 1 quality gun than 2 or 3 pieces of junk.

If you are not familiar w/ the Kel-Tec http://www.kel-tec-cnc.com/plr16.html

sculpting, I didn't mean to question your purchase, just meant to point out why I would purchase one over the other.

I have heard really good things about the Saiga rifles and for a $300ish gun they are a good "battle/defense" rifle.

The S&W AR's are very well built rifles, according to some forums I have read they are better built than Stag and Rock River. Check into Sabre Defense and LMT while you are at it. Stags are OK from what I have seen. I have not handled a Rock River since about 2005 but on one range trip the three guys I was shooting with had them and they ran all day long without a hiccup. I picked up their brass and it was enough to fill an ammo can so there was a lot of rounds spent that day.

Once again, it all depends on what your purchase is going to be used for. If you plan on running something for tens of thousands of rounds then you want to make sure you get a good gun, with good parts. I have been using an AR in one form or another since 1985 and have never had a parts breakage over thousands of rounds. The only issues have been with parts loosening.

Some will say that the only way to go is Colt. They put some good stuff in their guns but I have seen some quality issues over the years with them as well.

GeneticsDave said:

You're going to over pay for that S&W M&P AR15, you should really consider a Stag or Rock River instead. Stag is great and they have them all over the place, particularly at FBMG.

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Every broken AR I have ever been around was a Colt with one exception, an FN (not Belgian) these of course where military guns. RR did some damage to its reputation when they bought a few minor parts that where not as advertised, not high grade steel but, pot metal.... Over all the make a quality product and its near the top of my list, stag is another great choice, some S&Ws made just before S&W went mostly in house are not so good, otherwise they are quality. Any time something is as popular and everyone jumps on the band wagon there lemons, there are quality guns and there is junk. So much of the AR market is fluff, take the gasbuster charging handle its the most robust precision charging handle around bar none, its a quality product. But, the gasbuster is around 90.00 and a normal charging handle is 10-20.00, this gasbuster was originally designed to keep excess gas from suppressed AR's from blowing into you eye, that's it. These days most suppressor shooters use silicone on a stock handle as it gives a truly custom fit and a better seal. Better than half of these gee-wiz goodies are crap you dont need, ho many times have you seen just a flashlight and a fore grip on a 300.00+ rail system? Flashlights do not need repeat zero's, you dont need a high dollar rail for that, the expensive rails where built for lasers and optics things that need to maintain a zero.

Think and shop before you buy otherwise there will be another cut rate super tacticool gun on KSL where the owner threw away a few hundred dollars (or more) because, what was great in his imagination it nowhere near what he thought it was in reality. You are better off buying ammo than gadgets.

And, for my next rant.........
5.45 is cheap but one of weak points of an AR is it's extractor. Time will tell if it's a problem with crappy steel cases in an AR, prove it to your self before you trust it, an extractor and a spring is cheep insurance.