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friendly group here
Sandy born Democrat. I know, hard to believe
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Welcome from southern Utah! :shades:
Democrat or not, I'm happy to see you on the forum, even if I'm so far right you need binoculars to see me! After 25 years in the military I've seen that people of all political parties have the same color of blood and we all bleed and die just like everyone else. I'm happy to see you've decided to carry for self-defense, I don't think the BG is going to ask you what political party you're aligned with before he shoots you. Personally, with the employment situation you've described, I would carry, LOCKED & LOADED 24/7.
Democrat or not, I'm happy to see you on the forum, even if I'm so far right you need binoculars to see me! After 25 years in the military I've seen that people of all political parties have the same color of blood and we all bleed and die just like everyone else. I'm happy to see you've decided to carry for self-defense, I don't think the BG is going to ask you what political party you're aligned with before he shoots you. Personally, with the employment situation you've described, I would carry, LOCKED & LOADED 24/7.
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Hi Wild Cat. Welcome!
You may be surprised to find this out, but you're far from the only liberal here. There's a pretty good mix.
You're also unlikely to get any argument here that the right to keep and bear arms should be completely unrestricted. If nothing else, pretty much everyone will agree that weapons capable of large-scale destruction are simply too dangerous to have generally available. Anyone who thinks, for example, private citizens should be able to own nukes is just crazy. So, clearly, the issue isn't whether or not citizens should own any weapon, but where to draw the line.
You might get some argument on automatic rifles, though. I think most would happily accept the NFA requirements of registration and licensing for full auto weapons, as long as the FOPA ban on post-1986 MGs were lifted. We've had fully-automatic weapons in civilian hands since they were invented, and once the minimal restrictions of the 1934 NFA went into effect, the use of MGs in crime has been effectively zero. Since experience shows registered, legally-owned MGs pose little or no danger to safety, why should they be restricted? There's also the issue of the purpose of the 2nd amendment, which would seem to imply that citizens really should have the same small arms that the military uses.
Similar arguments apply to so-called "assault weapons". Absent evidence that they're an actual risk, they should be legal. So say the libertarian-minded, anyway, and most of the conservatives as well. IMO, the reality is that the reason many liberals want to ban them isn't because they're dangerous, it's because it's a small, but easy step toward a total gun ban.
Another issue you might find debate on is whether or not convicted felons should be denied the right to own guns. There are plenty here on both sides. I find this one interesting because I would think liberals, who tend to believe it's possible for a criminal to reform, should support reinstating the right for those who have paid their dues, but liberals tend to be even more strongly opposed than the strict law-and-order conservatives (who also tend to be opposed).
Similarly, there are plenty here to believe that the right to carry, concealed or not, loaded or not, should be universal -- no permit required.
Finally, the biggest point of discussion, I think, will be over support for democratic candidates who are unabashedly anti-gun. I notice you haven't tried to address that point head on ;-)
Again, welcome. Here's to some interesting discussions -- even if they're just rehashes of old debates
You may be surprised to find this out, but you're far from the only liberal here. There's a pretty good mix.
You're also unlikely to get any argument here that the right to keep and bear arms should be completely unrestricted. If nothing else, pretty much everyone will agree that weapons capable of large-scale destruction are simply too dangerous to have generally available. Anyone who thinks, for example, private citizens should be able to own nukes is just crazy. So, clearly, the issue isn't whether or not citizens should own any weapon, but where to draw the line.
You might get some argument on automatic rifles, though. I think most would happily accept the NFA requirements of registration and licensing for full auto weapons, as long as the FOPA ban on post-1986 MGs were lifted. We've had fully-automatic weapons in civilian hands since they were invented, and once the minimal restrictions of the 1934 NFA went into effect, the use of MGs in crime has been effectively zero. Since experience shows registered, legally-owned MGs pose little or no danger to safety, why should they be restricted? There's also the issue of the purpose of the 2nd amendment, which would seem to imply that citizens really should have the same small arms that the military uses.
Similar arguments apply to so-called "assault weapons". Absent evidence that they're an actual risk, they should be legal. So say the libertarian-minded, anyway, and most of the conservatives as well. IMO, the reality is that the reason many liberals want to ban them isn't because they're dangerous, it's because it's a small, but easy step toward a total gun ban.
Another issue you might find debate on is whether or not convicted felons should be denied the right to own guns. There are plenty here on both sides. I find this one interesting because I would think liberals, who tend to believe it's possible for a criminal to reform, should support reinstating the right for those who have paid their dues, but liberals tend to be even more strongly opposed than the strict law-and-order conservatives (who also tend to be opposed).
Similarly, there are plenty here to believe that the right to carry, concealed or not, loaded or not, should be universal -- no permit required.
Finally, the biggest point of discussion, I think, will be over support for democratic candidates who are unabashedly anti-gun. I notice you haven't tried to address that point head on ;-)
Again, welcome. Here's to some interesting discussions -- even if they're just rehashes of old debates
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:welcome:
Enjoy the forum!
Enjoy the forum!
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5,591 Posts
Welcome to the forum!
Thanks for introducing yourself ... with rather a splash. :lol2:
Stick around ... this is a great place.
Thanks for introducing yourself ... with rather a splash. :lol2:
Stick around ... this is a great place.
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3,180 Posts
Ok, I may have spelled your name wrong however, I would like to comment on this one line:
"I am just started at how many believe having a gun solves social issues. or that this is the most important issue."
Having been accustomed to guns since I was young, and having been a gun owner for many years, I as well as most colleagues who are gun owners, have never felt it was a problem solver for social issues. I am not even sure exactly what you mean by that statement?
For me, I have always felt it is an inherent right to own a weapon. The constitution guarantees all citizens this right. The right itself is not exclusive nor inclusive of hunting rights, or sporting rights, but it is a necessity for the common citizen in order to protect themselves from an egregious government as a final necessity towards keeping our nation free.
So essentially it is a means to an end, if necessary. How we take responsibility for our weapons as well as how we treat our fellow man are important. But it still doesn't come to a social issue. Normally I would think social issues would be more inclusive of things such as sexual diseases running rampant, illnesses being spread through bad meat, Dr's who abuse patient rights and whether it is lawful and immoral to kill, including unborn generations who are too young to defend their right to life once they were initially granted their mortal existence by uncaring parents who just want the "problem" to go away. These I see as social issues. Others may disagree however, It would be interesting to know where you are coming from with this comment?
I would also like to take the opportunity to say welcome to the forum!
"I am just started at how many believe having a gun solves social issues. or that this is the most important issue."
Having been accustomed to guns since I was young, and having been a gun owner for many years, I as well as most colleagues who are gun owners, have never felt it was a problem solver for social issues. I am not even sure exactly what you mean by that statement?
For me, I have always felt it is an inherent right to own a weapon. The constitution guarantees all citizens this right. The right itself is not exclusive nor inclusive of hunting rights, or sporting rights, but it is a necessity for the common citizen in order to protect themselves from an egregious government as a final necessity towards keeping our nation free.
So essentially it is a means to an end, if necessary. How we take responsibility for our weapons as well as how we treat our fellow man are important. But it still doesn't come to a social issue. Normally I would think social issues would be more inclusive of things such as sexual diseases running rampant, illnesses being spread through bad meat, Dr's who abuse patient rights and whether it is lawful and immoral to kill, including unborn generations who are too young to defend their right to life once they were initially granted their mortal existence by uncaring parents who just want the "problem" to go away. These I see as social issues. Others may disagree however, It would be interesting to know where you are coming from with this comment?
I would also like to take the opportunity to say welcome to the forum!
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Welcome
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Welcome
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:welcome:
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Welcome to a forum filled with happy people.
Tarzan
Tarzan
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What happened to wild cat mccane? :dunno:
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Wild Cat,
Good to see another liberal here! There are a few of us, you aren't alone! And generally this forum is more than tolerable and polite as long as you can explain your position solidly. I think you'll like it here.
I'm not really a Dem. (in fact, currently I'm registered Rep., but only to support my local Senator who is Rep.) but I do consider myself a Liberal -- not a Social Welfare Liberal, though, more along the lines of a Libertarian style of Liberal. It's all in the definitions but I'm gathering you're more along the lines of the SWL???
I was pretty ready to vote for Obama a while back -- the man is a *GREAT* speaker -- but his comments and voting record on firearms turned me away pretty strongly. His pastor and his campaign's fairly overt racism put me over the edge. I can't vote for that. Now I'm not sure who I'll be voting for... possibly Ron Paul.
At any rate, very good to see you here! I'm glad to see another Lib who is pro-gun and pro-common-sense! :welcome:
Good to see another liberal here! There are a few of us, you aren't alone! And generally this forum is more than tolerable and polite as long as you can explain your position solidly. I think you'll like it here.
I'm not really a Dem. (in fact, currently I'm registered Rep., but only to support my local Senator who is Rep.) but I do consider myself a Liberal -- not a Social Welfare Liberal, though, more along the lines of a Libertarian style of Liberal. It's all in the definitions but I'm gathering you're more along the lines of the SWL???
I was pretty ready to vote for Obama a while back -- the man is a *GREAT* speaker -- but his comments and voting record on firearms turned me away pretty strongly. His pastor and his campaign's fairly overt racism put me over the edge. I can't vote for that. Now I'm not sure who I'll be voting for... possibly Ron Paul.
At any rate, very good to see you here! I'm glad to see another Lib who is pro-gun and pro-common-sense! :welcome:
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287 Posts
The AC-130 should be a group purchase for the average guys, not the individual. You could never fly it and manage all the guns by yourself. Now the A-10, that's a different story...sculptingmyguns said:
I don't know what happened to mccane, seemed like an interesting character, to be sure. How any gun-loving liberal could vote for Obama is beyond me. Barr-Root all the way for me, gents.
Swillden brings up some great points: I would definitely be more open to a class 3 automatic weapons license and the attendant loss of privacy if I could buy new guns.
But hey, mccane, if you're still around, :welcome: and hope to see you posting soon.
--Geoff (AKA G-had, the Proud Provostani)
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