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Should we limit our training courses?

4490 Views 18 Replies 7 Participants Last post by  Strategic Tactical
What classes should we offer?
Basic classes00.00%
Basic and some moderate advanced220.00%
Advanced classes330.00%
Tactical and Precision rifle550.00%
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We have received some flack in the past couple months about some of the training that we offer. What do you think, are them courses that we should not offer? Is there some training that citizens should not have?
How about an "All of the Above" option?

That would get my vote. I think the more citizens know about firearms and their use/function, the better.
You can never learn to much, and you can never train to much.

A Little knowledge is dangerous; A lot of knowledge keeps you from being a danger.
ok so how do I go back in and add it? If I can't figure out how to do that, then the tactical and precision will be the "All the above"
I agree. I don't see any logic behind arguments that citizens shouldn't be allowed to take certain courses. I know of quite a few ex-military who took some classes similar to the ones you offer in order to prepare to be serious candidates for PD's.

If "strategic" courses are limited, then quite honestly we should start restricting laser-tag and paintball to courses that are only open-ground not involving any real tactical skills.

Also, I took a couple of strategic courses in the military and I learned a *TON* about what things to consider when clearing rooms, advancing on blind corners/stairs, etc. That knowledge is now serving me very well as I walk around my house and think about what a real-life night-time situation might look like where I may not be entirely sure where the perp is in my house. Without that valuable knowledge I am much more at risk defending my home.

To limit a person's KNOWLEDGE is to limit one's ABILITY to hand oneself in a safe and effective manner.

It's funny... the anti-gunners are always crying about "uneducated" and "untrained" gun wielders not being able to handle their weapon safely and effectively... yet here they are criticizing the very classes which aim to correct that deficiency.
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Funny thing is, these are other instructors that say we shouldn't teach the general public these courses......
Strategic Tactical said:
Funny thing is, these are other instructors that say we shouldn't teach the general public these courses......
I'd be interested to hear their arguments, but until then I just have to assume that their thought-processes are off-kilter.
They are saying that the "general public" doesn't need to know the tactics that are going to be taught. We think that for the building clearing class we offer, its a good idea for people to know how to tacticaly go through their own home. We do not teach them as team movements as there is no need. Also for our precision rifle class, we had two Police snipers attend it and also a couple of military snipers. We had one person who was a deer hunter and wanted to know how to engage his target with more accuracy. Hope this helps
I'm confused... are you stating what your current offerings consist of (along with the limitations and your current reasons for those limitations) or are you stating what some of the other instructors are arguing the current offerings should be limited to?

Anything less that what you have stated, I think, is a mistake.
If what you are stating is that some of the other instructors are arguing to move towards, then I tend to agree with them. Indeed, team movements aren't necessary. Again, though, to place those limits is to deny those who perhaps want to get a step-up to going into some form of LE. Also, what about those who take such classes simply b/c they are fascinated by it and enjoy it as a form of entertainment/personal growth/knowledge???

Obviously it is your shop's right to restrict what you offer however you wish -- especially if you don't have enough customers for a certain class. But if you have plenty of customers and no better reason for limiting your offerings than just "the public shouldn't know these things", you are just doing the public a disservice. The "bad guys" will still learn it -- videos, ex-military who work for $$$ and not values, books, internet, etc.

Protecting the public against the public is always a lost cause.
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I wasn't quite sure how to answer. I think as far as impact, offering the basic and intermediate classes will provide the most in regards to public safety, whereas the tactical classes will benefit a smaller portion of the population. Being the capitalist that I am, I'd say you should offer whatever people are willing to pay for.

Myself, I've been looking to find a good, one-day beginner to intermediate pistol defense course for some time, but have had a tough time finding something that I want because all of the courses are either "here's where the bullet comes out" or "here's how you shoot accurately while throwing a ninja star and performing a back flip". :D
apollosmith said:
"here's how you shoot accurately while throwing a ninja star and performing a back flip". :D
I Want that class!!!!!!!! :mrgreen:

Now if I could only figure out where the bullets come out... :wink:

OH, and I would need to find a picture of Jesus doing a backflip, throwing a ninja star while holding a glock.

The closest I got was Chuck Norris with Jesus' head photo shopped on.
Strategic Tactical said:
Funny thing is, these are other instructors that say we shouldn't teach the general public these courses......
What a joke!!! Keep doing what you are doing!!! I would like to attend some of your classes just to see your style and see what meat and potatoes you are feeding the students. I always like to check out other courses and integrate bits and pieces into my own. It keeps things exciting. As long as the general public that you are talking about is required to start at basic and then advance accordingly, there is no reason why they can't learn the advanced techniques. my .02 B
Jesus holding a lever action Ruger = funny
Jesus doing a backflip = sweet
Jesus head on Chuck Norris body = wicked cool
Jesus holding a Glock = blasphemy :twisted:
apollosmith said:
Jesus holding a Glock = blasphemy :twisted:
I forgot this is an XD lovers fourm :lol:

How about I meet you 1/2 way and say Jesus holding a 1911
BTW, I just wanted to say that I thought this was the funniest post I've read on this forum so far... I was laughing for quite a good while! (and so was my wife!) :lol:
Strategic Tactical said:
We have received some flack in the past couple months about some of the training that we offer. . .
Isn't that what your vest is for?

Sorry. Couldn't resist.

Ignore the naysayers if they are idiots. If they have a glimmer of intellect, try to bring them up to speed. We just chatted today about one of your upcoming classes and about OFA. OFA teaches team techniques in some of their classes, and here's a few things I've learned from it:

1) Heightened muzzle awareness. One thing to cross yourself during a drill. Very different if you cross your partner or they cross you-even with an Airsoft. Great teaching tool - even for guys with good muzzle discipline- it really allows you to see the importance of those little things that you have to constantly work on and drill.

2) Ability to work with different people - they'd have us go with a buddy, then somebody we didn't know - very different communicating with, trusting with somebody you don't know. Did I trust my buddies more? You bet. I knew everybody there was good and safe, but I'd be lying if I said there weren't some I'd rather have by my side than others. In the real world, we might have to communicate with panicked, ignorant people during a crisis.

3) Sound, movement - threat identifiers - tough to pick up footsteps or crunching gravel of a "bad guy" when your "partner" is making a racket (relatively speaking)- you have to learn to focus elsewhere and look for other things.

The other thing is that lots of my friends carry and my wife carries. Having done teamwork drills, we're a leg up should anything ever happen. Sure, the chances of it are pretty darn low, but it could happen, we don't get to pick where or when.

Now, I'm not saying team building clearing should be at the top of the list of things to learn for somebody relatively new to training to defend them self - but after you've done some interior movement classes, when you have some skills developed and think you are comfortable with it (I never am-I hate clearing buildings), I think there are things you can learn better and improve on when you are working with others that will ultimately benefit you in the event you have to clear your way out of a building by yourself.

As for other 'advanced' tactics- knowledge is power, and some people fear their fellow citizens or are flat out elitists having any power. Some people are just plain ignorant and aren't comfortable with the responsibility of knowledge, so they want to limit others.

See you in December.

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Mike, thanks for the info. Looking forward to having you in our class in December. As for the rest of this post.... I'm all about Jesus with a 1911. Just picked mine up yesterday as I wastalking to Mike on the phone... He had to give me some crap about it.... LOL Good guy it sounds like. Be safe everyone.
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