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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello folks-
First time poster here. I would love for this website to get off the ground for us in UT. I am wondering if anyone has specifics about legality of carrying at the sirport in SLC? Specifically, there are signs posted which say that carrying is prohibited inside of the terminals outside of the secured area--just going in to pick up family at the baggage claim even. But then the BCI site says:

"It is unlawful for a person with a firearm permit to carry a concealed firearm in the following locations:

Any secure area in which firearms are prohibited and notice of the prohibition is posted
A secure area of an airport"

The general public access area of the airport I would not consider a "secure area" even though the signs are posted.
My general attitude is that if I feel the need, I will carry. However, I am also not looking for trouble in the form of a weapons violation.
Thoughts?
thanks
al
 

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Standard Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer (IANAL)...

But, this has been discussed on packing.org before, where W. Clark Aposhian said that there is no statute in Utah that allows the SLC airport to prohibit legal concealed firearms (except for past the security checkpoints). You can't carry in the sterile areas, of course. But it is perfectly legal, with a CFP, to carry into the terminal, walking right past those non-enforceable signs. The airport has been told that they need to remove the signs, but they haven't yet.

Yes, I've seen the signs ... and promptly ignored them when I went to pick up my son at the airport when he was flying into SLC.

The Utah statute that prohibits the carrying a firearm into the "sterile" area of an airport (beyond the security checkpoint), even with a valid CFP, is:

76-10-529. Possession of dangerous weapons, firearms, or explosives in airport secure areas prohibited -- Penalty.

There's a great book on gun laws in Utah, called Utah Gun Law II, by Attorney Mitch Vilos. I bought this book last year at a gun show in Sandy. I learned a lot from it. I highly recommend it.

 

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The warning signs outside of the Salt Lake City Airport Terminals refer to these laws

Utah Code
76-10-505. Carrying loaded firearm in vehicle or on street.
(1) Unless otherwise authorized by law, a person may not carry a loaded firearm:
(a) in or on a vehicle;
(b) on any public street; or
(c) in a posted prohibited area.
(2) A violation of this section is a class B misdemeanor.

Looks like with this one they draw a big goose egg, this law is specifically not applicable to Utah CFP Holders.

Salt Lake City Code
16.12.260 Firearms And Explosives:
No person, except authorized peace officers, post office, customs, express and air carrier employees, members of the armed forces of the United States or members of the national guard, on official duty, shall carry any loaded or unloaded firearm, explosive, ammunition or other dangerous weapon or device except an unloaded firearm or ammunition being transported in a private aircraft in a manner that complies with law, or being delivered for shipment by an air carrier directly to the air freight office or the airline ticket counter in compliance with law. (Ord. 77-04 § 7, 2004: Ord. 42-87 § 6, 1987: prior code § 2-14-3)

Now this one is more slippery. It would seem to say we can’t carry in the unsecured terminal areas, but isn’t Salt Lake City prohibited from making laws which go against State Law? And I can’t seem to find any info on the Ord.’s sited as support. Salt Lakes web site seems to be a little klunky where seeing current or even old laws and ord.’s are concerned.

Any how I ignored them last night... and I smoked a bowl of Tinderbox Old Ironsides only 24 feet and 9 inches from the terminal door while I waited for my arriving party.
 

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Coyote84 said:
Any how I ignored them last night... and I smoked a bowl of Tinderbox Old Ironsides only 24 feet and 9 inches from the terminal door while I waited for my arriving party.
Puff once for me :wink: . Silly &$$ rules :lol: .
 

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On business I flew in and out of SL last week and the signs were still there.

I found this thread on opencarry.org, where they had tried to get the airport to remove the signs.

Basically the airport knows exactly what they are doing and don't care. They say that people with permits know they can carry so they are hurting no one.

Here is the thread from OCDO, with the oldest letter at the bottom.

UPDATE - SLC AIRPORT RESPONDS!

----------------------------

Subject: Re: Signage inquiry
Date: 3/13/2007 2:01:37 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time
From: XXXXXXX

Reply To:
To: [email protected]

Dear Ms. Riley:

Thank you for your reply.

I now kindly ask you to consider replacing the signs with less ambiguous language. The signs as worded now can only be assumed to be designed to chill the exercise of lawful gun carry in the non-sterile areas of the SLC airport.

By way of analogy, imagine a sign posted at the entrance to Utah on highways warning: "Welcome to Utah. Gun carry is unlawful as set forth in code section umpy ump."

Government agencies should not issue vague Orwellian warnings to citizens which chills their rights of all but those willing to become lay-lawyers in daily life.

Sincerely,

Mike Stollenwerk

PS. Your reply indicates that you are aware that "permit holders" may carry guns in the non-sterile areas your airport terminals. Please also be aware that non-permit holders may openly carry handguns in your airport provided that the handgun is not loaded. For semi-automatic handguns, this merely means that no round is chambered.
---------------------------------------
In a message dated 3/13/2007 1:26:01 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [email protected] writes:

[size=Dear Mr. Stollenwerk,]

[size= ][size=Thank you for your inquiry regarding signage at the airport. As you have pointed out, signs are posted at the entrances to our terminal buildings stating that weapons are prohibited, including firearms as provided under state law. The signage refers airport patrons to the section of Utah state code that governs where permit holders may carry firearms at the airport. ]

[size= ][size=Our signage simply states that weapons are prohibited as provided by law. We believe it is important for our patrons to focus on these requirements in today’s airport environment as we work to protect the traveling public. We have found that gun owners are responsible citizens, and that permit holders understand state law. Our signage raises awareness and points out applicable code if there are any questions.]

[size= ][size=Thank you for your inquiry. The Salt Lake City International Airport works to provide safe and effective services to meet the needs of the public.][size= ]

[size=Sincerely,]

[size=Maureen Riley]

[size=Executive Director

-----------------------------
Subject: re Please remove your no weapons sign at airports - the local ordiance is preemp
Date: 3/8/2007 1:21:21 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time
From: Majstoll
Reply To:
To: [[email protected]][email protected][/email]
CC: [email protected]

Executive Director
SLC Airport

Dear Ms. Riley:

I never received a reply in this matter. Please advise.

Sincerely,

Mike Stollenwerk
Opencarry.org
XXXXXXX

------------------

Subject: re Please remove your no weapons sign at airports - the local ordiance is preemp
Date: 3/8/2007 1:21:21 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time
From: XXXXXXXXX
To: [email protected]
CC: [email protected]

Subject: Please remove your no weapons sign at airports - the local ordiance is preempted
Date: 10/4/2006
From:
Reply To:
To: [email protected]
CC: [email protected]

Dear Mr. Williams:

A report at http://www.packing.org/community/laws_p ... view/17485 indicates a state firearms preemption law violation at the airport - please remove the signs.

I am only tracking 7 states having any law precluding citizen gun carry in the non-sterile areas of airports. And Utah is not one of them.

Just like state college campuses, the Salt Lake City and your airport entity are prohibited from enforcing any restriction on firearms carry.

Under both Utah & federal law, persons holding firearms carry permits accepted by have the right to walk about the non-sterile areas of the airport carrying loaded handguns, concealed, or openly.

Persons firearms carry permits may only carry unloaded handguns openly, where under Utah law "unloaded" is defined as 2 actions required to fire.

I expect you to remove the signs. Please let me know what you are going to do.

Mike Stollenwerk
http://www.OpenCarry.org
XXXXXXXXXXX]

Here is the link http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum52/602.html

Tarzan
 

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Coyote84 said:
Salt Lake City Code
16.12.260 Firearms And Explosives:
No person, except authorized peace officers, post office, customs, express and air carrier employees, members of the armed forces of the United States or members of the national guard, on official duty, shall carry any loaded or unloaded firearm, explosive, ammunition or other dangerous weapon or device except an unloaded firearm or ammunition being transported in a private aircraft in a manner that complies with law, or being delivered for shipment by an air carrier directly to the air freight office or the airline ticket counter in compliance with law. (Ord. 77-04 § 7, 2004: Ord. 42-87 § 6, 1987: prior code § 2-14-3)

Now this one is more slippery. It would seem to say we can’t carry in the unsecured terminal areas, but isn’t Salt Lake City prohibited from making laws which go against State Law? And I can’t seem to find any info on the Ord.’s sited as support. Salt Lakes web site seems to be a little klunky where seeing current or even old laws and ord.’s are concerned.
I personally wouldn't sweat this code section either. I don't have the time to get the reference, but Utah prohibits any cities, towns, counties, etc in writing laws that are in conflict with Utah code when it comes to CWP holders and concealed carry laws.
 

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As always... IANAL.

The Utah State Constitution sets the stage. Governmental bodies below the State Legislature have no authority.

The individual right of the people to keep and bear arms for security and defense of self, family, others, property, or the state, as well as for other lawful purposes shall not be infringed; but nothing herein shall prevent the Legislature from defining the lawful use of arms.
Now, that doesn't mean that some cop won't arrest you, book you, and D.A. charge you. At which point you'd still have to show up in court and defend yourself. A good lawyer would get it thrown out. It's a hassle.

Creating a layer of hassle so that people comply with bureaucrat wishes in order to avoid being bothered is an ancient tactic.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
blackpuma said:
Creating a layer of hassle so that people comply with bureaucrat wishes in order to avoid being bothered is an ancient tactic.
One little sentence, so much truth.
 

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heavykevy said:
Coyote84 said:
Salt Lake City Code
16.12.260 Firearms And Explosives:
No person, except authorized peace officers, post office, customs, express and air carrier employees, members of the armed forces of the United States or members of the national guard, on official duty, shall carry any loaded or unloaded firearm, explosive, ammunition or other dangerous weapon or device except an unloaded firearm or ammunition being transported in a private aircraft in a manner that complies with law, or being delivered for shipment by an air carrier directly to the air freight office or the airline ticket counter in compliance with law. (Ord. 77-04 § 7, 2004: Ord. 42-87 § 6, 1987: prior code § 2-14-3)

Now this one is more slippery. It would seem to say we can’t carry in the unsecured terminal areas, but isn’t Salt Lake City prohibited from making laws which go against State Law? And I can’t seem to find any info on the Ord.’s sited as support. Salt Lakes web site seems to be a little klunky where seeing current or even old laws and ord.’s are concerned.
I personally wouldn't sweat this code section either. I don't have the time to get the reference, but Utah prohibits any cities, towns, counties, etc in writing laws that are in conflict with Utah code when it comes to CWP holders and concealed carry laws.
As I was researching this, I found something interesting...

16.16.180 Flight Over The City­Minimum Altitude:

A. General Restrictions: Except as directed by FAA air traffic control, aircraft flown over residential or business areas of the city shall comply with minimum altitude as specified in regulations promulgated by the federal aviation administration.

B. Exemption For Flying Reindeer On Christmas Eve: On Christmas Eve only, flying reindeer and any cargo they may be towing shall be exempt from the provisions of subsection A of this section. (Ord. 77-04 § 12, 2004: Ord. 92-85 § 1, 1985: prior code §§ 2-3-8, 2-3-8(e))

HA! We can fly reindeer at low altitudes!!!
 

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Funny - things are the same all over.

Very similar laws in OR where I just moved from. Of course the Port of Portland Police Dept thinks they rule the world and can enforce no guns on all airport property....
 

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Maladjusted said:
Funny - things are the same all over.

Very similar laws in OR where I just moved from. Of course the Port of Portland Police Dept thinks they rule the world and can enforce no guns on all airport property....
Don't forget Portland itself...they've never heard of pre-emption, now have they? :roll:
 

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SGT Jensen said:
B. Exemption For Flying Reindeer On Christmas Eve: On Christmas Eve only, flying reindeer and any cargo they may be towing shall be exempt from the provisions of subsection A of this section. (Ord. 77-04 § 12, 2004: Ord. 92-85 § 1, 1985: prior code §§ 2-3-8, 2-3-8(e))

HA! We can fly reindeer at low altitudes!!!
Not to get side tracked too much, but this tells me that I can fly a plane with reindeer in it, towing a glider, well below minimum altitude on Christmas Eve and according to SLC it would be legal. No where do they specify that the reindeer must be providing the locomotion. :ROFL:
 

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SGT Jensen said:
As I was researching this, I found something interesting...

16.16.180 Flight Over The City­Minimum Altitude:
...
B. Exemption For Flying Reindeer On Christmas Eve: On Christmas Eve only, flying reindeer and any cargo they may be towing shall be exempt from the provisions of subsection A of this section. (Ord. 77-04 § 12, 2004: Ord. 92-85 § 1, 1985: prior code §§ 2-3-8, 2-3-8(e))

HA! We can fly reindeer at low altitudes!!!
OK, now ... you know the rules. Provide a link to the item you referenced. I wanna see this reindeer link for myself!! :ROFL:
 

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According to Mitch Vilos, Sgt. Jensen and Packingmama, the signs have been taken down. A big thanks to the Jensens for their good work! :thewave:
 
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