[Ruger Collector]

On the Bob Lonsberry show this morning (570 am) they're reporting that the SJ PD and 4 of the 5 council members are supportive of a new ordinance that would make it a misdomeaner to use a BB gun, airsoft gun, archery equipment and a plethora of other 'fake guns' in the city limits... :disgusted:

[EDIT - Corrected URL tags so that they work -- Jeff]

 

[Cinhil]

Yes, I watched the hyperbolic, very seriously reported news feed on this last night. It is utterly contemptuous. It appears that it has become an issue more because of one school in the area and their fallible fear of anything that semi-appears to look like a weapon. In fact every one of these Airsoft guns they showed were easily seen for what they are (even if the orange end were painted). The experts quoted, or comments shown were from idiots except for the one council woman who states it would violate constitutional rights and would only be a beginning of more "legislation" to monitor our every move. Or in other words, it would begin the creation of so many rules that we couldn't use a bathroom without someone holding our hand because we were doing it wrong!
Personally I think it does violate constitutional rights as well as state law should they move forward with this idiocy. In fact, I felt it was another way the media could instill fear in the public as another way to accomplish their anti-gun agenda.

 

[mjhuff51]

I heard about this yesterday on my way home from work. To quote the great Glenn Beck, "it made BLOOD SHOOT OUT OF MY EYES". My favorite part of the story was the reporter stating that the police department was pushing for a requirement of all citizens to CALL THEM FIRST before they play with their toy guns. WHAT THE ?!?!?!?!?!?!

 

[Ruger Collector]

And of course if they get this passed the PD will have carte blanche to harass everybody they see with a gun, fake or not...

:evil:

 

[divegeek]

And of course if they get this passed the PD will have carte blanche to harass everybody they see with a gun, fake or not...

Hmmm. Would seeing a man with a holstered gun give reasonable suspicion that the gun is a toy, and that the carrier is about to draw and shoot it? I don't think so.

Although open carry of firearms is rare, in my experience it's even less common for adults to walk around with toy guns strapped to their hips. In fact, I've never seen it. Even kids rarely carry an airsoft or BB gun in a holster. About the only holstered toys I ever see are on kids under 8, with their cap-gun "revolvers" in the obviously toy holsters they came with.

Not only that, how does seeing a holstered gun (fake or real) provide a reasonable suspicion that the carrier is about to draw and shoot? It's already illegal to shoot a firearm in the city.

Not that they wouldn't try to use this law to stop OC'ers, if it passes they will, but if anyone bothered to fight it I think a court would likely rule that it was an unjustified detention.

 

[Ruger Collector]

Not that they wouldn't try to use this law to stop OC'ers, if it passes they will, but if anyone bothered to fight it I think a court would likely rule that it was an unjustified detention.

If it passes and somebody bothers to fight it in court the unconstitutional law will likely be quickly overturned as well. But why wait until then to fight a bad law when it might be nipped in the bud? I'd rather somebody not be forced to suffer the initial injustice.

Edit: The city council has this on the agenda for the public hearing June 17th @ 6pm. Unless my work schedule changes I'll be there to voice my opinion. Those who can't make it may send comment to the council members (whose contact information may be found at www.southjordancity.org ) or you can send written comments to the city recorder prior to the public hearing.

 

[mcmeister]

Forgive me if I'm wrong, and it sounds like this perhaps extends a bit further, but isn't it usually against the law to discharge any firearm within city limits? I know my neighbor, who is a Lehi City police officer, and I were talking about the stupid squirrels we have in the neighborhood and we told him we were popping them with a pellet gun and he said "technically" we weren't supposed to be doing that. He also included the kids airsoft guns in this grouping. Of course, all of our neighborhood kids, including his, are constantly having airsoft wars, so I know he wouldn't do anything about it, but it was my common understanding that bb pellet and airsoft type guns were included in the no discharge of firearms in city limits rulings. Toy guns that don't actually fire anything out of the gun, thats a bit crazy.

 

[Ruger Collector]

Forgive me if I'm wrong, and it sounds like this perhaps extends a bit further, but isn't it usually against the law to discharge any firearm within city limits? I know my neighbor, who is a Lehi City police officer, and I were talking about the stupid squirrels we have in the neighborhood and we told him we were popping them with a pellet gun and he said "technically" we weren't supposed to be doing that. He also included the kids airsoft guns in this grouping. Of course, all of our neighborhood kids, including his, are constantly having airsoft wars, so I know he wouldn't do anything about it, but it was my common understanding that bb pellet and airsoft type guns were included in the no discharge of firearms in city limits rulings.

Those could be classified as dangerous weapons depending on how they are used or intended to be used (76-10-501.5), to be a firearm by UT law it would have to fire a projectile by means of an explosive.

Unless there is a specific local prohibition on BB/airsoft guns, its perfectly legal for your kids to be playing Army or shooting pop cans in your front yard with them, they're not discharging firearms.

76-10-501.9(a) Definitions[/URL]":1nxkoy5x]

(9) (a) "Firearm" means a pistol, revolver, shotgun, sawed-off shotgun, rifle or sawed-off rifle, or any device that could be used as a dangerous weapon from which is expelled a projectile by action of an explosive.

 

[Sam Fidler]

Did anyone else here participate in two-pump wars? This was well before paint ball or air soft; we would use our pellet guns with a two pump limit to fight battles on the city streets. Guess we've come a long way since then.

 

[mjhuff51]

LOLOLOLOLOL TWO PUMP LIMIT!!!! That's funny. You know when nobody was looking you were pumping that pellet gun beyond its limits. I know I did.

 

[Sam Fidler]

LOLOLOLOLOL TWO PUMP LIMIT!!!! That's funny. You know when nobody was looking you were pumping that pellet gun beyond its limits. I know I did.

Yup! :twisted: "He's a little farther away than usual."

 

[mchlwise]

Unless there is a specific local prohibition on BB/airsoft guns, its perfectly legal for your kids to be playing Army or shooting pop cans in your front yard with them, they're not discharging firearms.

There is indeed precedent set in other states which said that paintball guns are NOT firearms. It was pre-airsoft era, but I believe it would hold up also... barring local specific city regulations, of course.

 

[Sam Fidler]

My sister & family live in South Jordan and were up visiting today when this topic came up. Since some special discussion on the subject was scheduled for their June 17th council meeting, has anyone heard any new info or if any decision was made?

 

[Guest]

... make it a misdomeaner to use a BB gun, airsoft gun, archery equipment and a plethora of other 'fake guns' in the city limits...

:ROFL:

South Jordan Agenda...
1. Threaten to make toys illegal
2. Take bribes from the toy companies
3. ....
4. Profit!

 

[Retire Early]

I had a friend attend the South Jordan city council meeting. The city said they were postponing the vote on the issue until they could further investigate the legal ramifications of making such an action. There were a few people there to oppose the nonsense. No definitive action of schedule of action was proposed.

 

[Retire Early]

It looks like this may be heating up again:

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=3928868

South Jordan proposes restrictions on fake firearms
August 4th, 2008 @ 8:57am

SALT LAKE CITY (AP) -- Air-powered guns -- like paintball rifles and BB guns -- could soon be banned on the streets of South Jordan.

The City Council is considering an ordinance to restrict the use of fake firearms to private property. The proposal follows 15 police department complaints of air guns mistaken for real weapons and 30 cases of property damage.

Under the proposal, air guns would be banned from public streets and property. Gun owners also would be required to keep fired BBs and paintballs from landing in restricted areas, including another person's property.

South Jordan wouldn't be the first municipality to impose restrictions. Salt Lake City, Bountiful, Clearfield and Centerville all prohibit firing the weapons within cities limits unless its at an approved hunting area or shooting range.

------

Information from: The Salt Lake Tribune

 

[Retire Early]

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_10089451

The South Jordan City Council vote on whether to restrict the use of air guns is scheduled for 6 p.m. Tuesday at City Hall, 1600 W. Towne Center Drive.

It looks like the SJ City Council will vote on Tuesday night for those who wish to attend...

 

[copper]

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_10108874

It's official. They are banned in Public Places. At least it isn't as bad as banning them altogether.

 

[Ruger Collector]

What nonsense, I can walk down the street with a REAL gun openly strapped to my hip and be perfectly legal, but if my kid is walking with me with a toy gun he's breaking the law! Time to encourage State legislators to cover these items under preemption.. :bang2:

 

[rdoggsilva]

Sometimes you wonder about our elected officials, and those that keep reelecting them. :dunno: :dunno: