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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I dont know if I missed this on the forum but I thought this was a pretty big piece of news. To recap if you havent read, basically a house in Bountiful was hit by a stray bullet by someone firing illegally on US Forest Service land. The article is interesting because it brings up the Bountiful Lions Gun club. These people make me sick(homeowners) because 1. this gun club had NOTHING to do with the stray bullet, other than proximity, and 2. The gun club has been there for 50 years. I know growing up in Bountiful and as houses starting encroaching the 'B' all of a sudden it was a HUGE issue to ride motorcycles and 4 wheelers up by and above the B. Now these 'encroachers' are trying to get rid of yet another place for us to shoot. We are already limited in where we can shoot and to close one of those places down completely would/should be huge. Look at ALL the comments because Lee Kay shut down one more day? Anyway here is a link to the article as KSL tells us and I would appreciate comments. Thanks.

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=3836516
 

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It was two bullets, not one that struck their home. I'd be pretty upset if bullets struck my home.
The right to keep and bear arms is definitely a right. It does come with responsibilities and there are consequences to illegal or careless acts.

I didn't understand from that article that the Burkes are urging the closure of the shooting range. In fact, there is this quote from the article:
The Burke's say they're not against people shooting, they're against people shooting toward their home. Marie says, "I think people can shoot all they want, but I think they need to be in an area so they're not shooting down between trees, passed the sliding doors and through people's homes and missing them by 4 feet."
The article does say that the Burkes suspect that the shots came from the shooting range, based on the fact that a few years ago someone was shooting in an illegal manner at the shooting range and bullets hit neighbor homes. The article also said that the police don't believe that these two bullets came from the shooting range this time.

What I take from this incident is that we need to reemphasize the basic firearm safety rules, including know your target and what is behind it. This is one of the cardinal rules.
 

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Jeff Johnson said:
It was two bullets, not one that struck their home. I'd be pretty upset if bullets struck my home.
The right to keep and bear arms is definitely a right. It does come with responsibilities and there are consequences to illegal or careless acts.

What I take from this incident is that we need to reemphasize the basic firearm safety rules, including know your target and what is behind it. This is one of the cardinal rules.
I agree.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
The issue isnt that someone had their home struck with bullets. That is scary in and of itself. The issue is those neighbors of the range, since day one, have been trying to close that range down. In fact when that neighborhood first went in, the range ALMOST was shut down. I am amazed that it has stayed open as long as it has, and the sheer mention that the bullets MAY have come from the range gives these people more ammo(pun intended) to close this range down and to strike fear in neighbors not in the fight, and get them to join.

I guess people on this board arent aware of the issues that have been going on with this range for years. It may have been a quiet fight, but things like this definately help the other side.
 

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In this day and age, if you can't be sure you are containing your lead on your range, you are operating on borrowed time. Since most ranges don't own enough land around them to make sure this is the case, situations like this happen.
 

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While I certainly agree with the situation as it is *NOW*... I have to wonder... if the range was there FIRST and the homeowners came AFTER... what did they expect??? I'm not saying the range shouldn't be responsible for keeping rounds on the range... obviously that goes without saying... but what happened years ago during the review period when plans were being made and licenses were being granted prior to any homes being constructed up there in the first place??? Clearly somebody screwed up. And clearly *SOME* of the ones who screwed up were the homeowners. Building or buying a home so near a range without ensuring it's safe is similar to those who build there house in the Ogden canyon overhanging the river or up on the edge of a cliff without any concern for natural disasters.

Obviously the problem needs to be fixed. But it seems to me the homeowners are at least PART of the problem, not just the range.
 

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On another note... this is the 2nd thread recently regarding Bountiful problems that seem to stem from the fact that Bountiful residents have moved ever-closer up the edge of the mountain... I'm starting to be persuaded that the larger problem are the residents trying to climb the mountain rather than those trying to enjoy Bountiful's mountain the way they have been doing for so many years. Granted, I don't know much of anything about any of these situations... but that's just how these situations come across to me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thanks Bane, This is the issue at hand. Its the fact that these homeowners come in AFTER the range and expect the range to change for them.
 

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The Range itself is on BLM land. As the city has annexed the surrounding property, they have boxed in the range. Now I am hearing that Bountiful City is looking into if not already started the process of annexing the range in with the theory of "better management" of the access road. If it is actually part of the city, I don't believe any city council will be able to stand up to a group of irate citizens wanting it shut down...just my opinion and only my opinion.
 

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m&p40 said:
...I guess people on this board arent aware of the issues that have been going on with this range for years. It may have been a quiet fight, but things like this definately help the other side.
You're right. Those of us who don't live in or near Bountiful aren't aware of that situation between the range and the homeowners, nor did I learn much from the posted article. Your response to the article was evidently based on a loaded history.

I'm not familiar with that shooting range. What's the layout like? Are they not set up to properly and safely contain all shots fired? I assume that it's an outdoor range. In what direction do people shoot? Do they have high enough berms? What would it take to fire a shot that would strike homes? Could that be easily done by accident? I don't know the answers to these questions. Maybe you do. Any shooting range that expects to remain open must recognize the need for safety. They have to take all necessary measures to ensure safety.

Some time ago, I saw a special on TV about a fatal accident at a shooting range. There was a building behind the berms, but the berms weren't quite high enough to block the line of sight of the top of the building. One shot that was made way too high struck the upper part of the building, went through, ricocheted off of the ceiling, then struck a man in the head. The investigation showed that the upper part of the building had been struck many times, and many of the holes had even been patched. Obviously it was known that the building was being struck. The range was cited for inadequate safety measures, including the inadequate berms.

I'm absolutely not in favor of shutting down any shooting ranges, including the one in Bountiful. That's one of the areas of attack by gun-grabbers -- trying to shut down shooting ranges. However, all shooting ranges must implement adequate safety measures and procedures if they expect to survive. I have absolutely no knowledge of what safety measures are in place at the Bountiful range.

However, let me repeat what was said in the article. The police do not believe that these two bullets came from the shooting range, even thought the homeowners do.
 
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To recap if you havent read, basically a house in Bountiful was hit by a stray bullet by someone firing illegally on US Forest Service land.
Explain why, if the shots did indeed originate from forest service land, the shooters where breaking the law?
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Eukatae said:
To recap if you havent read, basically a house in Bountiful was hit by a stray bullet by someone firing illegally on US Forest Service land.
Explain why, if the shots did indeed originate from forest service land, the shooters where breaking the law?
They were shooting illegally because of the direction of fire. Not because of where they were.
 

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Jeff Johnson said:
m&p40 said:
...I guess people on this board arent aware of the issues that have been going on with this range for years. It may have been a quiet fight, but things like this definately help the other side.
. . . all shooting ranges must implement adequate safety measures and procedures if they expect to survive. . .
Where I shoot we just spent about $600,000 redoing the range to implement a "no blue sky" range. Each shooting bay has a slanted plate steel top that runs from the shooting bench out down range. At the down range side of the plate steel, they have a steel deflector installed at about a 45 degree angle. I am amazed at how many shoots hit the ceiling and final deflector. Many shoot it with even realizing it. In the old configuration, all those rounds could be a problem for surrounding land owners.

Even with that installed, we have holes in our roofing material where shooters have accidently shot behind the firing line. This is not steel plated but simply corregated metal roofing material. These are usually the result of a lever action shooter loading their tubular magazines and touching off a round while the gun is pointed up.

One time when I was working as an RSO I heard shooting but could not locate the shooter. I walked down the line and a shooter was standing in front of the shooting bench at the front of the shooting bay. He liked that since his vision wasn't restricted by the steel plating. Anyway, I called him back from the front of the shooting bay and explained that he was standing about 7' in front of the firing. I told him he was lucky he didn't get his *** shot! Anyway, "no blue sky" improvements don't help with customers like him.

Even with reasonable approaches at shooting ranges can not do enough to stop rounds from leaving the property. That said, it is the range's responsibility not that of the neighbors.
 

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Yes, that's where I shoot. If you are shooting correctly, you CAN'T hit a house. Besides, no real reason to keep discussing this as the round most likely didn't come from the range, but up the mountain further from some idiot.

The problem with closing the range is that many citizens use it AND the range allows Bountiful PD to shoot there free of charge, there are always a few LEOs up there when I go. Closing the range would be a real disservice to the local PD as well as the citizens - something I'm not sure a council would do just to help out a few home owners.
 

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Jeff Johnson said:
.....What I take from this incident is that we need to reemphasize the basic firearm safety rules, including know your target and what is behind it. This is one of the cardinal rules.
Jeff is exactly right.

For those of you who have forgotten.....The Four cardinal rules of firearm safety are;

1. Treat every gun as if it were loaded.
2. Never point any gun at anything you don't want to destroy.
3. Keep your finger off the trigger until you have identified your target.
4. Know your target and what is behind it.

Tarzan
 

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Tarzan1888 said:
3. Keep your finger off the trigger until you have identified your target.
I prefer "3. Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target."

Clearly, though, someone is breaking one or more rules, or this could not happen.
 

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swillden said:
.....I prefer "3. Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target."......
I'm OK with that.

Tarzan
 
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