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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So, the last thread on this sounded like it said the LDS church had allowed their notice to lapse but that there was some delay in updating the website. That was a year and a half ago and they are still on the list.

Are they still off limits? Is BCI really that slow in updating? Or did they renew their notification? If so, when is it next up to lapse (as there are no dates on that page)?
 

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Shhhh.

We're hoping that if we just stay quiet, they will forget and I will be able to pack heat at church in 2 weeks!

It is my opinion that if the LDS Church renews again this year, I will start getting my own voice heard to make sure they do NOT do it again for 2007.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Trust me, I am not bringing it up with anyone outside of here. So what is the date we are counting down to with this?
 

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Well, let's wait a bit until 2006. I'll make the call to the BCI to see if they have renewed again. Once I know, I'll post it here and let y'all know.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Any news on this? In one of the other threads, February first was mentioned as a renewal date. I hate to call up there and raise attention to the fact if the church hasn't renewed, especially if someone on here already knows...
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
This is frustrating. What is the most frustrating about it, in my opinion, is that the church, to my knowledge, did not ask that all members in all meeting houses across the nation stop bringing any guns in and take measures to comply with the law to legally restrict it where they can. They only do it here in Utah.

I suppose I can understand why they did this at th start (with all the publicity at the inception) but why do they continue to ban carry?
 

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yes, very frustrating. Where are the big brass ones?
Did they die with Bruce R, Ezra Taft Benson, Brigham Young, and the others?

I'm getting very conflicting messages, and am very disappointed.
 

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Evidently we all shouold be writing the Presiding Bishop of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to express our thoughts concerning this issue. This would include forcing all members in Utah to attend victim zones (or in other words-buildings which provide no security for their members, and refuse them their constitutionally protected Rights which were in place by God, before our constition was written to protect those rights.
We need to begin a writing campaign demanding a withdrawal of the Churces ban. Afterall, in the last several years, here in this valley, many incidents have occurred in LDS church buildings, which only proves that these buildings are nothing more than victim zones.
Some of the affronts which have occurred in just the last 5 years are:

Several rapes
several acts of vandalism
several incendiary acts of violence -including a bomb once? I think. As well as several buildings being burned
Robberies
A stabbing of several victims during a baptismal service
And many other incidents too numerous to mention

So the question is; Why has the church adopted & facilitated this evil legislation? Will the church retract its stance on this issue? Afterall, we are only asking that those legally able to do so, such as police, public servants & concealed weapon holders (whose weapons will not be visible) be allowed to obey their constitutionl rights, and perform their duties without fear of reprisal for obeying the constitution of theis great country!
:(
 

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Hear, hear, Cinhil!!!

This will be the year that I write that letter. Are you sure that it should go to the Presiding Bishop?
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I also am very willing to participate in the letter writing campaign. It would be great if we had some references for some of the incidences that were referenced above.

I am a bit concerned about expressing what I wrote above (about how they are only picking on Utah carriers) for fear that the next Sunday, a letter will be read in all wards across the country (regardless of whether it would carry force of law in those states).

Is there someone who wants to head this up? Do some research on those past crimes at LDS church buildings? Make sure that the presiding bishop is the one we should be writing to?

If we are going to do this, it needs to be done well.
 

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Ethan,

This could be a good thing, especially if many of us, and our friends can flood the Office of the Presiding Bishop of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints with letters/calls. I am almost 100% positive this is the correct route to take.
As for doing research into these offenses on church property, including the Murder several years ago at the Family History Library & I believe, the Channel Five building (which I think is owned by the church?), I will do what I can to research dates, places, buildings etc. After I get this info together I will formulate a letter & post it for anyone to use. This may take a little while, so please bear with me as I take time to research & draw up an appropriate letter.
In the mean time, if anyone has any pertinent info, or suggestions, please post them here, or to my private email.
Hopefully we can win out where we have lost & gain a victory where few have tried.
:p
 

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I would have to check to see if I am able to release the names of those involved in the meetings.
To be safe you could always address them to the Public affairs spokesperson, Bill Evans.
Clark
 

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I would be very willing to write letters, and get my friends to write letters too. Heck, I'll hand deliver them. I want to see this "law" changed.
 

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I am all over this. I have been very disappointed in the church's position on this. Ever since I had my "mall incident" just before Christmas, I feel very insecure without my firearm. So far, there are only two places I'm not able to have it with me -- AT WORK and at CHURCH.

It is always with me otherwise, even at home. I will NEVER be in a position again that I can't defend myself and my family.

How are things going on the research? Any way I can help out? I am ready to write whomever it takes.
 

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I had a day off of work (Presidents Day) & spent it in research. My research, however, is by no means finished.
I called the LDS Church to try and get as much first hand information as possible--that got me nowhere. One person (of many I was transferred to in several departments) said; "They don't gather this info." However, I was told by another that disclosures of this type of information would have to come from the Brethren.
Some information:
4-15-99, 2 dead & four wounded at Church Family History Library.
1-14-99, De Kieu Duy murders 1 and wounds at least two others at KSL Building.
August 2 or 3, 2003, Kearns Chapel ignited by arsonist--$1,000,000 in damages.
1-16-88, Bomb goes off at Marion, Utaah Chapel.
July 2001, Levan, Utah Chapel vandalized by grafitti.
April 2005, Southern Utaah University-theft of purse, wallet & cell +$131.00.
April 2005, SUU Institute - purse stolen-loss of $530.00.
An article on Clergy by John Walsh states that while violence, arson & vandalism may not be as common as it was in the 19th century, sometimes today, Latter-day Saints are targets of arson & vandalism. And Latter-day Saints are still occasionally still beaten or killed for their beliefs.
According to the 1999 Utah Department of Health Bureau Statistics, Murder, Rape, Robbery & Aggravated Assault in Utah is HALF the National Average!
With information such as this I wonder why our Rights, which are guaranteed by God, are being violated. Even if our violent crime rates are half that of the rest of the nation, enough violent crime does exist that we should not be denied our constitutionally protected rights. After all, the Church has taught us all through my life that weapons are as much a part of a food storage program as medical supplies, clothes & food! Did not the Church also require each wagon & every male over 16 to carry a rifle, and a pistol if they had it, as they travelled out west. I was also taught that shouold the need ever arise, we as Saints, should gather at our chapels with our weapons for the common defense!
Even our 12th Article of Faith says that we believe in obeying, honoring and sustaining the law of the land. This doesn't mean we create laws to justify our fears at the expense of the greatest law of the land, the Constitution & Bill of Rights! Even Christ told his Apostles " If ye have no Sword sell your cloak that ye have one." Peter even had a sword with him during Christs' prayers in the Garden of Gethsemane.
We are supposed to be self sufficient and law abiding, as a people. This doesn't mean that we must lie down & die, or that we must be victims. We are supposed to do all that we can do, and after we have done all that we are able, and I believe that self defense is a part of this equation, then we will be blessed. God doesn't say, "Give up, Be a Victim, He encourages us to defend our lives, our liberty, our families & friends. So I say, Why the appearance of hypocracy? Legally authorized individuals who have undergone stern measures, including fingerprintin, training & background checks by the FBI, should not be penalized because a few evil men or women, who will not obey the law, break the law. It is a proven fact that CCW holders commit far less crimes than police officers do. Yet police are under no obligation to disarm to enter a chapel. Isn't this a bit hypocritcal? The latest poll I saw last year showed that CCW holders commit about .05 of a percent of criminal acts. Police were shown in that poll to commit about 2.8 percent of criminal acts. So, no matter how you look at it, police & CCW holders are some of the most law abiding citizens in the nation, but we as CCW Holders are treated as if we were incapable of good judgement. The bigotry needs to stop.
Anyhow, I spent many hours of research to get what little evidence I was able to put together here for everyone. If this info is sufficient I would invite you to take this info & formulate a letter to send on to the church. As for me, I will probably spend a few more days in research, and then I will need time to formulate an appropriate letter, which I will post here, for our members so they may wright the church concerning their improper stance on this issue. It should be a no brainer. But we must fight-legally-at every turn for the ability to maintain the freedoms we have. I hope we may be successful in this endeavor.
Thanks for listening to my rant.
Cinhil :) :shock: :?: :idea:

ps--any help with research would be greatly appreciated. Just post your info here & I will use it when I formulate our letter.
Thanks!
 

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Don't limit incidents to just LDS churches. They should realize that just because it's a church, it doesn't mean bad guys won't enter in. I would reference any incident at any church in the nation.

Here are some that I've run across so far:
Church arson:
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/02/19/church ... topstories
Bomb scare at LDS church:
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=166110
Wisconsin killing spree in a church:
http://www.helenair.com/articles/2005/0 ... 405_02.txt
PA abduction/killing at church:
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04110/302906.stm
TX church slayings:
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/ ... i_56183334

I just googled "gunman at church" and supposedly there are over 300,000 weblinks.

I also wonder why the lawmakers would allow this stipulation in the law. It's scary to think our lawmakers want to be responsible for church killing sprees because they legislated for the possiblity that no one in a congregation can defend themself.

Sure, write a letter to the LDS church, but I really think the state should do away with the provision in the first place. Then the church can save face, and we get what we want.
 

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Thanks Rotten-Newbie!

I had thought about this as part of the letter I am formulating, so I will review these incidents & make mention of them as well. Good input!
Robie :)
 
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