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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm a bit confused...why does this CNN article seem to state that open carry of a handgun by a CFP holder is prohibited at public Universities (such as the U of U)? The article stated that "...[Utah] state legislators could be......considering a bill to modify current law to allow people in Utah -- including students -- to carry loaded weapons openly."

Full article at http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/02/20/cnnu.guns/index.html

I thought that as a holder of a CFP, you are NOT REQUIRED by law to CONCEAL the weapon in areas where you are otherwise allowed by law to carry one. I agree that concealing the weapon is a great idea 99% of the time for all the reasons you guys (and gals) know about.
 

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You are correct. I belive they are puting it into law so that it is specificly expressed that we are allowed to. Just my thought.
 

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bbjoe said:
The article stated that "...[Utah] state legislators could be......considering a bill to modify current law to allow people in Utah -- including students -- to carry loaded weapons openly."
You're right, the article is wrong, but the article's error is understandable.

There's nothing in state law that implies a CFP holder has a duty to conceal. Nevertheless, the University of Utah claims to have gotten a private opinion from the Attorney General that says they can prohibit open carry on campus. The AG has said publicly that he thinks the law is ambiguous and that it can be read either way, though he appears to lean towards believing OC is allowed. I can't figure out how you could read it any other way. The legislature is considering a bill that would clarify the language and make it crystal clear that the intent is to allow CFP holders to OC if they prefer.
 

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The current bill under consideration is likely a response to the U of U drawing the next line in the sand after they lost the concealed carry fight. Now they're trying to claim that open carry is illegal or can be banned by school rules, when it really can't.

It wouldn't be the first time the Utah legislature has had to clarify the law to allow no wiggle room for the leftist U of U.
 

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Its like trying to nail jello to the wall.
 

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My interpretation is a little different. Because it refers to "people" being able to carry open and loaded, I don't think it means permit holders. Currently anyone can open carry but not loaded. So perhaps there is a bill in the making that will modify that. Sounds kind of sketchy though since the whole 'loaded firearm in a vehicle or on a street' concept would have to be overhauled. I'm actually pretty happy with the current laws, other than all the private property restrictions.
 

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All this bill is about is a clarification of the law. The Utah Attorney General asked the Legislature to draft it so it clarifies that persons with a concealed carry permit do not have to conceal the weapon. The Attorney General has stated it is legal to open carry now but the bill will put it in writing. It does not allow open loaded carry for people without CCW permits.
 

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bbjoe said:
I'm a bit confused...why does this CNN article seem to state that open carry of a handgun by a CFP holder is prohibited at public Universities (such as the U of U)? The article stated that "...[Utah] state legislators could be......considering a bill to modify current law to allow people in Utah -- including students -- to carry loaded weapons openly."

Full article at http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/02/20/cnnu.guns/index.html

I thought that as a holder of a CFP, you are NOT REQUIRED by law to CONCEAL the weapon in areas where you are otherwise allowed by law to carry one. I agree that concealing the weapon is a great idea 99% of the time for all the reasons you guys (and gals) know about.
Per title 76-10-505 a CFP CAN carry OPEN CARRY loaded and a Non-Permit Holder "Utah-Loaded", meaning NOT chambered. Legislature is just CLARIFYING the Law. Both Non-Permit Holders and Permit
Holders CAN OC under current Law. We just want it to be in CLEAR wording.

TJ
 

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mqeqeshe said:
My interpretation is a little different. Because it refers to "people" being able to carry open and loaded, I don't think it means permit holders. Currently anyone can open carry but not loaded. So perhaps there is a bill in the making that will modify that. Sounds kind of sketchy though since the whole 'loaded firearm in a vehicle or on a street' concept would have to be overhauled. I'm actually pretty happy with the current laws, other than all the private property restrictions.
I think the confusion on interpretation seems to be caused by reading the news article vs. reading the actual legislation. As several here have said before, "news reports have a great tendency to be quite mistaken". The article may have used the omni-applicable word of "people" but the actual legislation they are writing about does not. The legislation they are writing about is a modified version of the concealed carry legislation and is obviously referring to this law applying to those with permits.

Here is another thread with links to the actual legislation as well as commentary: http://www.utahconcealedcarry.com/forum ... php?t=1630

:puke:
(nothing to do with this thread, I just had to use one of the new emoticons for fun!)
 

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mqeqeshe said:
My interpretation is a little different. Because it refers to "people" being able to carry open and loaded, I don't think it means permit holders. Currently anyone can open carry but not loaded. So perhaps there is a bill in the making that will modify that. Sounds kind of sketchy though since the whole 'loaded firearm in a vehicle or on a street' concept would have to be overhauled. I'm actually pretty happy with the current laws, other than all the private property restrictions.
HB 473 adds this sentence to 76-10-501 (3), and nothing more.

"Concealed firearm permit" means a permit issued pursuant to Section 53-5-704 that permits, but does not require, concealment of the firearm on the permittee.
 

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I spoke with the St. George Legislator that helped author this bill, Steve Urqhart. He told me the bill had passed through the legislator but not through the house, he also told me that the open carry applied to every where but the obvious places like federal buildings, court houses, etc. He also told me being that I'm a college age person that the bill does NOT permit open carry on college campuses but you can still conceal carry on campus. My boss was around when I asked the question of the legislator and he started to go off about how guns aren't permitted on college campuses. I tried to defend the right to carry as he perceived it but he was just **** bent that any college employee such as myself carrying on campus would lose their job if they were ever caught carrying. It upsets me that he is so ignorant of these laws but he didn't want to believe me. Anyway, off topic there. Open Carry, Yes, On Campus, No. The bill also didn't pass through to law since the house didn't really look at it, but there is also no law prohibiting open carry. Carry on my open carry buddies.
On that note, I'm out.
:copcar:
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Huh? I did't think there was any language in the proposed bill that actually changed anything...just a clarification. If Dixie is a state college, then either concealed or open carry should be perfectly legal with a valid permit, right?

Are you saying that there is language in the bill that now PROHIBITS open carry at State colleges and universities? Hmmm....
 

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I'm not saying they changed the language of the bill, but Legislator Steve implied that the reason the bill didn't pass through to law, and didn't pass in the house was because there wasn't language prohibiting open carry on college campuses. And Yes, Dixie State College is a state college. I know concealed is perfectly legal there and open quite possibly is too but I know all the college police officers :cop: and I know that three of the four of them would not approve of open carry whether it's legal or not. It's one of those things, it's not how the law is written but how the law enforcement agencies want to read it, yeah it won't hold up in court but still they'll give you as much crap as they possibly can. Within the limits of the law. They'll probably terry stop the crap out of you while you're on your way to class.
:copcar:
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Intereting indeed. Thanks for the clarification. Yes, despite the legality of it, I can imagine open carrying in any college causing a stir...

...what would the Dixie officers do if you were lawfully carrying a CONCEALED weapon, and they happen to spot it or otherwise notice?
 

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bbjoe said:
Huh? I did't think there was any language in the proposed bill that actually changed anything...just a clarification.
It was just a clarification at first, but an amendment was added that prohibited open carry at post secondary institutions. Thankfully, this bill died in the senate.
 
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