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This was posted over on OpenCarry.org:

schwarzi88 on OCOD said:
sorry this is a lil late but i had some major stuff to take care of at my house...... Anyways, i was at the Walmart at 106th south and 5th west on thurs July 3rd around 8:30 PM when i was asked to leave ..... i was not even in there for 10 min. as 2 ***. Mngs came up to me and asked me to put my sidearm in the car befor i continue doing my shopping .... i told him that coprate stated ....bla bla bla ....bla bla ...... and i asked to talk to the district Mng. .... he told me he wasn't avalible and when i said that i was not going anywhere until he got ahold of him someone on the walky talky said to call the police..... that was my cue, lolol. so on the way to the door the 2nd ***. Mng went to get me a supposed E-Mail that the legal department sent to all the stores. So as i passed the door greeter i asked her to give me a paper and a pen so i can write down the names of both ***. Mng. As luck would have it i saw a LEO patroling the parking lot and i asked the male ***. Mng. to go talk to her and clear some things up ....... to make a long story short she asked them why they didn't post sighns against Weapons to avoid this all the time ..... they said that since it was Private property they didn't have to :shock: ..... so about that time the 2nd ***. Mng came out and handed me the 2 E-Mails......... i'm gonna paste these on here and u guys argue it out. I just think that Walmart is using its power as a corp. Giant to do as it pleases and silly enough gets away with it! I'm thinking that they have a lawsuit waiting to happen just to proove a point ...... maybe get a $10,000 Gift card out of it lol. well guys all jokes aside i think this prob shoud be addressed!
Looks like this affects both OC and CC, check out the emails below:





Strange that they would implement such a policy when they sell guns at their stores... um... logic? If I get kicked out, that will be the last time I shop at Wal-Mart, and I go there quite a bit.
 

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I've been boycotting WalMart for lesser issues than this for nearly 2 years. This is just another reason to continue, in my opinion.
 

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This is something new for WW. Our closest WW is 3 W at 1300 S, gang banger central. If something happens in their parking lot can they be held responsible. I do not buy any weapons there and very little if any ammo. Would rather buy for our local dealers. If this is going to be their attitude, then I do not need to shop there. I guess they will start training there greeters to state looking for weapons both OC and CC.
 

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Alright people. I say we flood their office with email. Lets let them know how stupid this is. I've pasted my email to him.

Mr. Johnson,

It has been a matter of much debate, as of late, about the emails sent out to your store management baring customers from carrying legal firearms. I like shopping at Walmart but will not do so if my right to my concealed weapon gets removed from your stores.

There is one other thing I'd like to point out to you. There are hundreds of thousands of Concealed Weapons Permit holders through out this country that will not shop at your stores if they are are turned away, because of their legally concealed weapon, even once. It would appear to me that, that many people leaving your stores for good would be a bad thing.

Sir, once you have removed all the "good guys" guns what are you going to do when some one like a gang banger comes in with an illegally concealed weapon and starts hurting people because there is no one to stop him. Sounds to me like you would be responsible for a lot of hurt and killed customers inside your stores and in your parking lots.

This is a very unfortunate thing Walmart has started. It troubles me greatly especially here in Utah where we had the Trolly Square tragidy. It is a common truth to us here that it didn't need to and shouldn't have gone that far. The reason it did is because concealed weapons were forbidden.

Before you continue with this think it through a little further.

Your troubled customer,

Joseph Chetwood
Gunsmith
 

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I posted this in a few places and am getting mixed reactions. Several people don't like the trend of people banning guns from their stores. A lot, the further east you go the more there are, of people get stuck on OC and look right over that it says CCW too. Others accuse us of just getting "pissy" about it. Ok so they are from the east, that has to be considered but come on.
 

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FBMG Smithy said:
I posted this in a few places and am getting mixed reactions. Several people don't like the trend of people banning guns from their stores. A lot, the further east you go the more there are, of people get stuck on OC and look right over that it says CCW too. Others accuse us of just getting "pissy" about it. Ok so they are from the east, that has to be considered but come on.
Well, I guess we should expect this type of attitude from those in the East, after all, the East was filled with many terrible tragic events and mob and gang rule at a time when (according to the movies) the "Wild West" was the supposed hot spot for death and destruction. How blindly led Easterners have been for decades. You had a greater chance of dying in the East than in the West in the days of the Wild West. It seems to remain that way today but the blinders have been pulled very tight & their is barely a peephole in them anymore!

Another thing I noticed is that WW says that in Utah they can restrict even lawful CCW holders from carrying in their store. This is simply not so. They may think it all they want but if I recall they are a publicly held corporation and therefore subject to the strictures of Utah law which says they may not do so. In fact they would be in violation should they do so. Now if someone wanted to research and say I was wrong, fine. But I believe this is the case. We have a great leg to stand on, besides the fact that they are being extremely hypocritical as they sell guns and ammo would tend to show they are inconsistent with the issue of lawful weapons altogether. These hyperbolic memos and emails do nothing more than frighten the people working for them into believing everyone who is armed is dangerous. This is simply not true. The no guns policy is absurd at best but asinine from the git go.
 

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Cinhil, Actually Walmart can restrict you from their store for carrying a gun. They can restrict you from their store for picking your nose wrong. The problem is carrying a gun isnt a PROTECTED civil right, so they can trample on our rights all they want so to speak.

The part I dont get is in their code of ethcis that they give to ALL their employees, it says they comply with ALL local laws, however now allowing someone to carry into their store LEAGLLY almost seems contradictory. I was saddened to know that I could get kicked out JUST for carrying.

I hope we can change some laws that protect this basic right just like any civil rights.
 

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m&p40 said:
The part I don't get is in their code of ethics that they give to ALL their employees, it says they comply with ALL local laws, however now allowing someone to carry into their store LEGALLY almost seems contradictory.
There are lots of legal things that you can do that will get you kicked out of Wal-mart -- just about anything that disturbs a lot of other patrons. Try skateboarding through the aisles, or standing near some leather goods and screaming at the top of your lungs that killing animals is evil, or... So that's not really a contradiction. The policy says that employees shouldn't do anything illegal, it doesn't say that they must allow anything that's legal.

Now, if the right to be armed were a protected civil right, like being black, or having a disability, then their code of ethics would require them to comply with the law and allow it.
 

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I agree swilden, thats why it was ALMOST contradictory :) Its one of those things that should be, but just isnt. Maybe we should get carrying a gun a proected right??? That would be the day...

One can dream
 

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First off I am not anti Open Carry, however could this outcome from Wallmart come from the pushing of the open carry cause? I don't know of any incident with concealed carry that caused this. This might be a backfire of the push to open carry. :dunno:
 

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Walther said:
First off I am not anti Open Carry, however could this outcome from Wallmart come from the pushing of the open carry cause? I don't know of any incident with concealed carry that caused this. This might be a backfire of the push to open carry. :dunno:
This would be my guess.
 

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Walther said:
First off I am not anti Open Carry, however could this outcome from Wallmart come from the pushing of the open carry cause? I don't know of any incident with concealed carry that caused this. This might be a backfire of the push to open carry. :dunno:
CC is unlikely to generate any backlash. Luckily, any non-legislative backlash generated by overaggressive OC really only affects OC, because retailers can't ban what they can't see. Where it would become a real problem is if retailers were to begin lobbying the state legislatures to give "no guns" signs legal force. I can't really see that, though. I don't think Wal-mart is actually anti-carry, they just don't like having to deal with complaints from their other customers, and CC doesn't provoke any complaints.

I don't think this means anyone should abandon OC, but we probably should be a little more discreet. As Mike over on OCDO put it, what we want Wal-mart employees to see is a happy customer OC'ing on the way OUT of the store, purchases in hand, not having received any complaints from other customers.
 

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swillden said:
Walther said:
First off I am not anti Open Carry, however could this outcome from Wallmart come from the pushing of the open carry cause? I don't know of any incident with concealed carry that caused this. This might be a backfire of the push to open carry. :dunno:
CC is unlikely to generate any backlash. Luckily, any non-legislative backlash generated by overaggressive OC really only affects OC, because retailers can't ban what they can't see. Where it would become a real problem is if retailers were to begin lobbying the state legislatures to give "no guns" signs legal force. I can't really see that, though. I don't think Wal-mart is actually anti-carry, they just don't like having to deal with complaints from their other customers, and CC doesn't provoke any complaints.

I don't think this means anyone should abandon OC, but we probably should be a little more discreet. As Mike over on OCDO put it, what we want Wal-mart employees to see is a happy customer OC'ing on the way OUT of the store, purchases in hand, not having received any complaints from other customers.
Amen brother
 

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Honestly, I'm not sure what all the fuss is about.

It's private property, and people who own private property can prohibit people carrying guns on their property. Look at the Boycott List for many examples. :dunno:

They can't take your guns away, all they can do is ask you to leave if they catch you, and you must.

I would guess that MANY other places are going to go this way as well. It's not that I like it, I don't, but with the way things are going it's just going to be a fact of life I believe.

Bottom line is - don't open carry at those places and you won't have a problem.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
mchlwise said:
Honestly, I'm not sure what all the fuss is about.

It's private property, and people who own private property can prohibit people carrying guns on their property. Look at the Boycott List for many examples. :dunno:

They can't take your guns away, all they can do is ask you to leave if they catch you, and you must.

I would guess that MANY other places are going to go this way as well. It's not that I like it, I don't, but with the way things are going it's just going to be a fact of life I believe.

Bottom line is - don't open carry at those places and you won't have a problem.
The fuss is that we are going to be told to leave our guns in the car or leave ourselves. Yes there is a boycott list, but why do we want to ADD to that list? That's where the fuss comes in. Many people shop at Wal-Mart, or at least buy ammo there, so yes, it's an issue.

You may be right, stores might end up prohibiting firearms, but I don't want to see it happening any more than you do.

The comment about open carrying is close-minded, in my opinion. The letter sent out to this Wal-Mart team is for ALL firearms, not just those carried openly. If you are concealing there, and they find out, they will most likely ask you to leave. Yes, it's legal, but it's not what we would like them to do. Many people openly carry for a variety of reasons, some personal, some political. Telling people "don't open carry at those places and you won't have a problem" discredits these reasons and ignores the real issue: Should we patronize a company that doesn't value rights that we hold dear?

While I acknowledge property rights, a business that doesn't welcome me for who I am (gun included), doesn't deserve my business. Why should I "conceal" just so I can give them money? If you like to conceal and don't mind what Wal-Mart is doing, please, continue to shop there, but please don't come in here and tell people that "it's not a big deal" and we should all just "carry concealed" to solve all our problems, it's belittling and ignorant.

P.S. I don't mean anything in here as a personal attack. I wrote what I did to try to help those who carry concealed to understand that for some, carrying openly is a passionate subject, something that they have integrated into their core values, something that they feel is important and when the world challenges that, they reply, "Don't Tread On Me."
 

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genetics, let me preface my comment with this isnt a personal attack either, but isnt this a concealed carry forum? I dont want to be close minded and exclude others opinions, but I find it odd that you feel a comment on a concealed carry forums is ignorant when the comment focuses on concealed carry to begin with.

Again, I dont want to personally attack anyone here and I love the comments that are given for the most part, I just get confused about what type of furm this really is sometime.

Please let me know if my thoughts are out of line. Thanks.
 

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Let me quote from the email that was shown in the first post of this thread:

"Team,
This is the ruling on the gun activist that is trying to bring his side arm in to our stores....Please be business like if you see this customer try to bring his gun in to the store."

IMO, this is very clear. Someone has been OC'ing into a local WalMart. I assume OC because obviously the store became aware of the handgun...if the gun was concealed no one would know about it, right? If you look at the email To: and Froms: this is an email from who I would assume is a store manager, emailing WalMart's LEGAL COUNSEL asking about the law. The Legal Counsel is responding appropriately that it is NOT illegal for WalMart to ask the individual to leave. The store manager again, generates an email which he sends to his "TEAM" telling them how they would like to handle the situation. The store managers decision is no guns. He absolutely has the right to make that decision. I know the property rights issue has been hammered here before, but legally at the end of the day, the store manager can ask someone to leave and can institute a no-firearms policy if he wants.

I think it very appropriate to quote Walther again "This might be a backfire of the push to open carry." I see this as a very accurate statement and there being nothing offensive or derogatory here. I also agreed with this statement. I think it is a fair observation. Nobody was attacking Open Carry, just making what it a fair observation and most likely a spot-on observation as well.

Yes this is a concealed carry forum. In the last number of months, there has been a significant amount of additional information and discussion regarding Open Carry. I for one think it is fine. We also discuss politics, religion, and a whole bunch of other stuff that has nothing to do concealed carry. It is also very obvious from the thousands of posts I have read, that as Dave says those that OC are very "passionate" about that right. Nothing wrong with that. I will also say however, in the most loving of observations, that the "passion" of the OC movement on a concealed carry forum can seem a bit like a hijack. I do read some very clear concealed carry threads that suddenly get a pro-OC post dumped in the middle of them. There have been others here that I know have also felt that way as some of the threads have revealed. I have felt at times (again no offense intended) that the OC'ers seem a bit more passionate than the CC'ers and I understand how that can be viewed as a bit out of place on a concealed carry forum. ("Hey, don't push OC in our CC forum! Go over to opencarry.org to do that" I'm sure has been felt by some members here.) I don't think either position is right or wrong and I for one think everybody can get along just fine. When I read a post that slightly annoys me, I just ignore it and go on to the next one. I'm sure many others do the same. Nobody is picking a fight and like I said before, we really should be able to post and discuss anything we want. I'm sure plenty of people read my posts and get annoyed at times, and just brush off what I say and go on to the next post. THANKS! So I guess I am trying to say, I don't see anybody attacking anybody else here....just lots of differing opinions. Differing opinions are ultimately what I want to hear and the more different opinions around here, the better!

To get back to the original topic, I say just concealed carry into Wal-Mart. Yes, you can boycott them. Yes you can send dirty emails. Yes you can OC and then leave. I for one will simply continue to concealed carry everywhere I can legally including Wal-Mart. In the year I have been carrying, I have never been made and I'm not about to start worrying about it now.

For those that are upset about WalMarts attack on open carry, not really sure what I would tell you other than at least its in the open now and maybe a dialogue will convince WalMart to rethink their position. OC seems to me to have a slightly different agenda than CC and that is just fine. We are both working toward the same goal. OC is just a bit more in-your-face than CC, and again, that is just fine also.

***I hope this made sense, I just started typing and don't have time to reread it....
 

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PW, I would agree with you completely. Maybe if I formed better thoughts before posting my post would have sounded more like that.

Again +1 from me on your post.

I also am not opposed to different topics on here. I love to hear your thoughts on all sorts of subjects. It gives me a good idea of where you all are coming from.
 
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