[Jeff Johnson]

:arrow: What does a Utah Concealed Firearm Permit (CFP) give you?

This question occasionally comes up, so I thought I'd post a thread to deal exclusively with this topic. Remember, I am not an attorney. Do not take what I post as legal advice. Verify this information for yourselves.

Check the letter you received from BCI when you were issued your permit. It spells out what sections of law we are exempt from with a permit. In that letter (at least it was in mine), you will find that it says the following:

...
A concealed firearm permit only exempts you from Subsection 76-10-504(1)(a),1(b), Utah code Annotated, "Carrying Concealed Firearms". Section 76-10-505, Utah code Annotated, carrying a loaded firearm in a vehicle or on the street" and section 76-10-505.5, Utah code Annotated, possession of a dangerous weapon on or about school premises."
...

(Note that my letter is old now since it was sent to me long before changes in the 2009 legislative session. The remainder of this post has been updated with the changes from the 2009 legislative session.)

From what I can tell, they base the above on two sections of code:

• U.C.A. 76-10-523. Persons exempt from weapons laws.

  ...
  (2) The provisions of Subsections 76-10-504(1) and (2), and Section 76-10-505 do not apply to any person to whom a permit to carry a concealed firearm has been issued:
  (a) pursuant to Section 53-5-704; or
  (b) by another state or county.

  [/*]
• U.C.A. 76-10-505.5. Possession of a dangerous weapon, firearm, or sawed-off shotgun on or about school premises -- Penalties.

  (1) A person may not possess any dangerous weapon, firearm, or sawed-off shotgun, as those terms are defined in Section 76-10-501, at a place that the person knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is on or about school premises as defined in Subsection 76-3-203.2(1).
  (2) (a) Possession of a dangerous weapon on or about school premises is a class B misdemeanor.
  (b) Possession of a firearm or sawed-off shotgun on or about school premises is a class A misdemeanor.
  (3) This section does not apply if:
  (a) the person is authorized to possess a firearm as provided under Section 53-5-704, 53-5-705, 76-10-511, or 76-10-523, or as otherwise authorized by law;
  ...

  (emphasis added)[/*]

Summary
Coalescing what the above two sections reference into a single list, with a CFP, we are exempt from the following subsections:

• U.C.A. 76-10-504(1) and (2). Carrying concealed dangerous weapon -- Penalties.

  (1) Except as provided in Section 76-10-503 and in Subsections (2), (3), and (4), a person who carries a concealed dangerous weapon, as defined in Section 76-10-501, including an unloaded firearm on his or her person or one that is readily accessible for immediate use which is not securely encased, as defined in this part, in or on a place other than the person's residence, property, a vehicle in the person's lawful possession, or a vehicle, with the consent of the individual who is lawfully in possession of the vehicle, or business under the person's control is guilty of a class B misdemeanor.
  (2) A person who carries a concealed dangerous weapon which is a loaded firearm in violation of Subsection (1) is guilty of a class A misdemeanor.
  ...

  [/*]
• U.C.A. 76-10-505. Carrying loaded firearm in vehicle or on street.

  (1) Unless otherwise authorized by law, a person may not carry a loaded firearm:
  (a) in or on a vehicle, unless:
  (i) the vehicle is in the person's lawful possession; or
  (ii) the person is carrying the loaded firearm in a vehicle with the consent of the person lawfully in possession of the vehicle;
  (b) on a public street; or
  (c) in a posted prohibited area.
  (2) Subsection (1)(a) does not apply to a minor under 18 years of age, since a minor under 18 years of age may not carry a loaded firearm in or on a vehicle.
  (3) Notwithstanding Subsection (1)(a)(i) and (ii), a person may not possess a loaded rifle, shotgun, or muzzle-loading rifle in a vehicle.
  (4) A violation of this section is a class B misdemeanor.

  [/*]
• U.C.A. 76-10-505.5. Possession of a dangerous weapon, firearm, or sawed-off shotgun on or about school premises -- Penalties.

  (1) A person may not possess any dangerous weapon, firearm, or sawed-off shotgun, as those terms are defined in Section 76-10-501, at a place that the person knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is on or about school premises as defined in Subsection 76-3-203.2(1).
  (2) (a) Possession of a dangerous weapon on or about school premises is a class B misdemeanor.
  (b) Possession of a firearm or sawed-off shotgun on or about school premises is a class A misdemeanor.
  (3) This section does not apply if:
  (a) the person is authorized to possess a firearm as provided under Section 53-5-704, 53-5-705, 76-10-511, or 76-10-523, or as otherwise authorized by law;
  ...

  [/*]

That's it. Those are the only weapons statutes that we are exempt from with a CFP.

Now, understand that there are places that we are not allowed to carry, even with a CFP:

• U.C.A. 53-5-710. Cross-references to concealed firearm permit restrictions.

  A person with a permit to carry a concealed firearm may not carry a concealed firearm in the following locations:
  (1) any secure area prescribed in Section 76-10-523.5 in which firearms are prohibited and notice of the prohibition posted;
  (2) in any airport secure area as provided in Section 76-10-529; or
  (3) in any house of worship or in any private residence where dangerous weapons are prohibited as provided in Section 76-10-530.

  [/*]

NOTE: This is my reading of the statutes. I am not a lawyer.

For a more complete list of links to Utah and Federal laws online, visit this thread: Handy links to Utah and Federal gun laws online

ADDENDUM: SGT Jensen reminded me of some more:

1. We can carry on a bus. (By Utah law -- be sure to check Federal law if traveling interstate!)
   

   76-10-1504. Bus hijacking -- Assault with intent to commit hijacking -- Use of a dangerous weapon or firearm -- Penalties.
   ...
   (4) (a) A person who boards a bus with a concealed dangerous weapon or firearm upon his person or effects is guilty of a third degree felony.
   (b) The prohibition of Subsection (4)(a) does not apply to:
   ...
   (ii) a person licensed to carry a concealed weapon;
   ...

   [/*]
2. We can carry a firearm into a terminal.
   

   U.C.A. 76-10-1507. Exclusion of persons without bona fide business from terminal -- Firearms and dangerous materials -- Surveillance devices and seizure of offending materials -- Detention of violators -- Private security personnel.
   ...
   (2) (a) A person who carries a concealed dangerous weapon, firearm, or any highly inflammable or hazardous materials or devices into a terminal or aboard a bus is guilty of a third degree felony.
   (b) The prohibition of Subsection (2)(a) does not apply to individuals listed in Subsection 76-10-1504(4).
   ...

   [/*]
3. We don't have to pay the $7.50 background check fee when we buy a gun.
   

   U.C.A. 76-10-526. Criminal background check prior to purchase of a firearm -- Fee -- Exemption for concealed firearm permit holders.
   ...
   (12) (a) (i) All dealers shall collect a criminal history background check fee which is $7.50.
   ...
   (13) An individual with a concealed firearm permit issued pursuant to Title 53, Chapter 5, Part 7, Concealed Weapon Act, shall be exempt from the background check and corresponding fee required in this section for the purchase of a firearm if:
   (a) the individual presents the individual's concealed firearm permit to the dealer prior to purchase of the firearm; and
   (b) the dealer verifies with the division that the individual's concealed firearm permit is valid.

   [/*]

 

[mchlwise]

Thanks Jeff!

Seems pretty clear.

 

[Shaolin]

Much appreciated for this quick reference info.

 

[Outsider]

Thank you for the information.

 

[Jeff Johnson]

Links fixed in this post too. I created this thread before the state statutes web site rearranged where things were.
When I fixed the links in the Handy Links thread, I forgot about this one.

 

[UTOC-45-44]

I love how an Officer told me this weekened that as a Permit holder I CANNOT OC and that I was NOT exempt OCing loaded ( I quoted 76-10-505). He said that I could ONLY carry LOADED when CCWing an NOT OCing. And not ONLY that, he said that I am in possible VIOLATION of my Permit since I am OCing :dunno: . He goes on to show me R722-300-3(D)

UT Admin Code R722-300. Concealed Firearm Permit Rule.

D. "Concealed" means that which is covered, hidden, or secreted in a manner that the public would not be aware of its presence and is readily accessible for immediate use.

Which is, and I agreed with him, a DEFINITION of a concealed weapon. BUT I said that is NOT a DESCRIPTION of what a Concealed Firearms Permit is. He still feels to I should be under an investigation for "Open Carrying with a Concealed Firearms Permit" :roll: . Since He probably knows that I am right he also is trying to tell me that I will be investigated for DISORDERLY CONDUCT.

You can read all about it @ http://www.opencarry.org under the Utah section Terrible OC Experience

76-9-102. Disorderly conduct.
(1) A person is guilty of disorderly conduct if:
(a) he refuses to comply with the lawful order of the police to move from a public place, or knowingly creates a hazardous or physically offensive condition, by any act which serves no legitimate purpose; or
(b) intending to cause public inconvenience, annoyance, or alarm, or recklessly creating a risk thereof, he:
(i) engages in fighting or in violent, tumultuous, or threatening behavior;
(ii) makes unreasonable noises in a public place;
(iii) makes unreasonable noises in a private place which can be heard in a public place; or
(iv) obstructs vehicular or pedestrian traffic.
(2) "Public place," for the purpose of this section, means any place to which the public or a substantial group of the public has access and includes but is not limited to streets, highways, and the common areas of schools, hospitals, apartment houses, office buildings, transport facilities, and shops.
(3) Disorderly conduct is a class C misdemeanor if the offense continues after a request by a person to desist. Otherwise it is an infraction.

Amended by Chapter 20, 1999 General Session
Download Code Section Zipped WordPerfect 76_09_010200.ZIP 2,207 Bytes

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sections in this Chapter|Chapters in this Title|All Titles|Legislative Home Page

Last revised: Thursday, May 01, 2008

TJ

 

[Outsider]

(b) intending to cause public inconvenience, annoyance, or alarm, or recklessly creating a risk thereof, he:

Is that kinda like the law about having a firearm with the intent to commit a crime? Basically meaning you have to be out brandishing and flashing your gun around to make the "Office Max woman" frightened for her children and call 911.

 

[GeneticsDave]

I still don't get the "Disorderly Conduct" thing. You can't be convicted of it unless your CONDUCT is disorderly, meaning you have to be doing one of these four things (as listed in the statute):
(i) engages in fighting or in violent, tumultuous, or threatening behavior;
(ii) makes unreasonable noises in a public place;
(iii) makes unreasonable noises in a private place which can be heard in a public place; or
(iv) obstructs vehicular or pedestrian traffic.
So... how does openly carrying a firearm fit into the Disorderly Conduct law? I don't get it. Perhaps I'm not intelligent enough to understand the laws that these LEOs seem to have down pat.

 

[RdnkFireDad]

So, can you carry a open carry with a round in the chamber??? (fully armed?)

 

[robin314]

So, can you carry a open carry with a round in the chamber??? (fully armed?)

Yes, with a CFP you can open carry a fully loaded and chambered gun with 147 more magizines on your belt. :ROFL:
Without it, you have to remove the bullet from the chamber, but the mags are okay.

Seriously, for a Semi-Auto, CFP allows you a full mag and chambered weapon. No CFP allows only full mag.

 

[robin314]

I still don't get the "Disorderly Conduct" thing. ... So... how does openly carrying a firearm fit into the Disorderly Conduct law? I don't get it. Perhaps I'm not intelligent enough to understand the laws that these LEOs seem to have down pat.

My buddy is a former LEO and he says that Disorderly Conduct is a catch-all.

It reminds me of the Federal Gun Free School Zone law was deemed un-constitutional, but was kept is law under the guise of interstate commerce.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun-Free_School_Zones_Act_of_1990

It was subsequently declared to be an unconstitutional exercise of Congressional authority under the Commerce Clause of the United States Constitution by the United States Supreme Court, and was therefore voided. This case, United States v. Lopez (1995), was the first time in over half a century that the Supreme Court limited Congressional authority to legislate under the Commerce Clause.

See also United States v. Morrison (2000), in which the U.S. Supreme Court also ruled that Congress lacked the authority to enact such laws even when there was evidence of aggregate effect.

Congress re-enacted the law in the GFSZ Act of 1995, following the Supreme Court's ruling, correcting the technical defects identified by the Court by adding section 3(A) placing the burden on the prosecutor to prove an additional element that the gun, " has moved in or otherwise affects interstate commerce."[1].

 

[Jeff Johnson]

So, can you carry a open carry with a round in the chamber??? (fully armed?)

Let's please keep this question in a single thread, rather than post the same question in multiple threads, so it doesn't have to be answered in multiple places. Thanks.

 

[SwordRapier]

I have an academic question related to this topic I noticed this a) a person who carries a concealed dangerous weapon, as defined in Section 76-10-501, which is not a firearm on his person or one that is readily accessible for immediate use which is not securely encased, as defined in this part, in a place other than his residence, property, or business under his control is guilty of a class B misdemeanor and I have a question about it.

So does CFP cover non-firearm openly carried Dangerous weapons for example large blade knives, swords stuff of that nature?

I allways thought it did but maybe i haven't been reading correctly.

Sorry if this is not the right place to be asking this quetion.

 

[Nuttycomputer]

So does CFP cover non-firearm openly carried Dangerous weapons for example large blade knives, swords stuff of that nature?

My understanding is that you do not need a CFP for openly carrying ANY Dangerous Weapon. The CFP will exempt from concealing a dangerous weapon and carrying within 1000' foot of educational buildings or educational activities. However feel free for someone to correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Jeff Johnson]

So does CFP cover non-firearm openly carried Dangerous weapons for example large blade knives, swords stuff of that nature?

My understanding is that you do not need a CFP for openly carrying ANY Dangerous Weapon. The CFP will exempt from concealing a dangerous weapon and carrying within 1000' foot of educational buildings or educational activities. However feel free for someone to correct me if I'm wrong.

If you don't have a CFP and want to carry a gun, then you must open carry a Utah-Unloaded gun if you're on a street. Don't forget that point.

 

[Jeff Johnson]

Oops! I need to change the original post in this thread, since the referenced (and quoted) sections of code were changed in the 2009 legislative session. I'll post here again when I've finished correcting it.

 

[Jeff Johnson]

Well, it was a while before I got to it, but it is done now. I've updated the original post in this thread to include the changes made in the 2009 legislative session.

 

[Kevin Jensen]

Your first post makes no mention of carrying on a bus or in a bus terminal.

76-10-1504. Bus hijacking -- Assault with intent to commit hijacking -- Use of a dangerous weapon or firearm -- Penalties.
(1) (a) A person is guilty of bus hijacking if the person seizes or exercises control, by force or violence or threat of force or violence, of a bus within the state.
(b) Bus hijacking is a first degree felony.
(2) (a) A person is guilty of assault with the intent to commit bus hijacking if the person intimidates, threatens, or commits assault or battery toward a driver, attendant, guard, or any other person in control of a bus so as to interfere with the performance of duties by the person.
(b) Assault with the intent to commit bus hijacking is a second degree felony.
(3) A person who, in the commission of assault with intent to commit bus hijacking, uses a dangerous weapon, as defined in Section 76-1-601, is guilty of a first degree felony.
(4) (a) A person who boards a bus with a concealed dangerous weapon or firearm upon his person or effects is guilty of a third degree felony.
(b) The prohibition of Subsection (4)(a) does not apply to:
(i) individuals listed in Subsections 76-10-523(1)(a), (b), (c), (d), and (e);
(ii) a person licensed to carry a concealed weapon; or
(iii) persons in possession of weapons or firearms with the consent of the owner of the bus or the owner's agent, or the lessee or bailee of the bus.

76-10-1507. Exclusion of persons without bona fide business from terminal -- Firearms and dangerous materials -- Surveillance devices and seizure of offending materials -- Detention of violators -- Private security personnel.
(1) (a) In order to provide for the safety, welfare and comfort of passengers, a bus company may refuse admission to terminals to a person not having bona fide business within the terminal.
(b) The refusal may not be inconsistent or contrary to state or federal laws or regulations, or to an ordinance of the political subdivision in which the terminal is located.
(c) An authorized bus company representative may require a person in a terminal to identify himself and state his business.
(d) Failure to comply with a request under Subsection (1)(c) or to state an acceptable business purpose is grounds for the representative to request that the person depart the terminal.
(e) A person who refuses to comply with a request made under Subsection (1)(d) is guilty of a class C misdemeanor.
(2) (a) A person who carries a concealed dangerous weapon, firearm, or any highly inflammable or hazardous materials or devices into a terminal or aboard a bus is guilty of a third degree felony.
(b) The prohibition of Subsection (2)(a) does not apply to individuals listed in Subsection 76-10-1504(4).
(c) The bus company may employ reasonable means, including mechanical, electronic or x-ray devices to detect the items concealed in baggage or upon the person of a passenger.
(d) Upon the discovery of an item referred to in Subsection (2)(a), the company may obtain possession and retain custody of the item until it is transferred to a peace officer.
(3) (a) An authorized bus company representative may detain within a terminal or bus any person violating the provisions of this section for a reasonable time until law enforcement authorities arrive.
(b) The detention does not constitute unlawful imprisonment and neither the bus company nor the representative is civilly or criminally liable upon grounds of unlawful imprisonment or assault, provided that only reasonable and necessary force is exercised against the detained person.
(4) (a) A bus company may employ or contract for private security personnel.
(b) The personnel may:
(i) detain within a terminal or bus a person violating this section for a reasonable time until law enforcement authorities arrive; and
(ii) use reasonable and necessary force in subduing or detaining the person.

 

[Jeff Johnson]

Oh, that's right. Good point. I'll have to modify the original post.

 

[Kevin Jensen]

Oh, and this one also. :wink:

76-10-526. Criminal background check prior to purchase of a firearm -- Fee -- Exemption for concealed firearm permit holders.
...
(12) (a) (i) All dealers shall collect a criminal history background check fee which is $7.50.
(ii) This fee remains in effect until changed by the division through the process under Section 63J-1-504.
(b) (i) The dealer shall forward at one time all fees collected for criminal history background checks performed during the month to the division by the last day of the month following the sale of a firearm.
(ii) The division shall deposit the fees in the General Fund as dedicated credits to cover the cost of administering and conducting the criminal history background check program.
(13) An individual with a concealed firearm permit issued pursuant to Title 53, Chapter 5, Part 7, Concealed Weapon Act, shall be exempt from the background check and corresponding fee required in this section for the purchase of a firearm if:
(a) the individual presents the individual's concealed firearm permit to the dealer prior to purchase of the firearm; and
(b) the dealer verifies with the division that the individual's concealed firearm permit is valid.