[XD_EE]

I was just talking to one of my in-laws who said that one of our relatives were in a car that was pulled over. One of the occupants of the car was an off-duty officer carrying concealed (he was in the back seat). He announced to the officer who pulled over the driver that he was carrying concealed...

When I received my training for a Utah CFP, the instructor said that if you were carrying as a passenger not to say anything. I've never been in either situation.

Out of curiosity what are the general thoughts on this? :?:

 

[TMG]

My guess is he said it in hopes to get his friend, the driver, out of ticket...
jmo

 

[XD_EE]

My guess is he said it in hopes to get his friend, the driver, out of ticket...
jmo

Would you tell the officer if you were a passenger that you were carrying?

 

[Udink]

Would you tell the officer if you were a passenger that you were carrying?

I wouldn't speak unless spoken to. If the officer starts asking the passengers' names and other info, I would then inform the officer of my carry status.

 

[Ruger Collector]

Yes. In that situation, the driver isn't the only person being stopped by the officer. You must notify them if you're armed.

 

[Udink]

Yes. In that situation, the driver isn't the only person being stopped by the officer. You must notify them if you're armed.

I totally disagree. Here is a direct quote from the link you posted:

When a concealed firearm permit holder or certificate of qualification holder is stopped for questioning by a peace officer based on reasonable suspicion in accordance with Section 77-7-15 and the holder has a concealed firearm in his/her possession, the holder shall immediately advise the peace officer that he/she is a lawful holder and has a concealed firearm in his/her possession.

Notice the part about "reasonable suspicion." Being a passenger in a vehicle in which the driver is suspected of a traffic infraction hardly puts you under "reasonable suspicion." What reason does the officer have to suspect the passengers?

 

[bane]

Udink, I totally agree.

If the driver is being pulled over for a minor traffic violation, there is certainly no "reasonable suspicion" for the officer to suspect you the passenger of anything illegal.

OTOH, if the driver were being pulled over for something else that could possibly implicate you as well, circumstances would call for your divulging your carry status.

As you already suggested, the line the officer draws in the sand by starting to ask passengers names is the line that tells you as a CC passenger that he may have reasonable suspicion regarding your involvement.

 

[Ruger Collector]

The training guidelines are fairly unambiguous and mention nothing about being an "innocent passenger" during a police encounter.

G. Permit holders should know what to do during a police encounter:
1. If you are armed, advise the officer of your firearm and your concealed firearm
permit
2. Advise the officer of the location of the firearm
3. Comply fully with all instructions given by the officer
4. Keep your hands visible at all times
5. Do not reach for your weapon or permit unless instructed to do so

The last time I checked, instructors were required to follow these guidelines. The guidelines don't say to tell your students "not to say anything".

The language of the public safety rule should probably be revised to help resolve the confusion caused by its present language (and lack thereof). When a deer killed itself in front of my car, I wasn't under any "suspicion", but I still informed the responding officer of my permit and firearm... and I've been in other encounters where it was obviously prudent to inform an officer of my armed status.

 

[TMG]

My guess is he said it in hopes to get his friend, the driver, out of ticket...
jmo

Would you tell the officer if you were a passenger that you were carrying?

My response was based on what the OP said. His passenger is an Off-duty officer. ( and NO, the off duty officer doesn't have to speak) But, in hopes of getting my friend out of a ticket, I'd say something to the officer. It may not help, but it cant hurt..

Now if I were a passenger, and not an LEO, I wouldn't say anything unless spoken to.

 

[tapehoser]

I have to agree with the sentiment that if I'm a passenger, I'm not saying anything to the police unless I am directly spoken to or asked. I've never been in a traffic stop where the officer asks for everyone's license. Just the driver.

 

[NotSoSimple]

I have to agree with the sentiment that if I'm a passenger, I'm not saying anything to the police unless I am directly spoken to or asked. I've never been in a traffic stop where the officer asks for everyone's license. Just the driver.

An old girlfriend and I got pulled over. She had just turned 18 (Remember im young :wink and he asked for my license also. She had rolled through a stop sign and he actually requested I drive her home lol. So they do ask for other licenses, but I think only when they are younger.

 

[bane]

I also think a "police encounter", as used in the training guidelines quotes, is ambiguous and without some sort of definition, it's impossible to know what exactly is meant by that term. Personally I would think "police encounter" suggests a personal interaction with a LEO. If I am a non-participant passenger who is never addressed by the LEO, I'm not sure that qualifies as an "encounter". Once the officer addresses me, then I guess I am now having an "encounter" with the LEO.

From another perspective, what if I am standing at a crosswalk light next to someone I don't know waiting to cross. The other individual tosses some trash onto the ground and a nearby LEO on foot comes over to question the guy and possibly cite him... would that qualify as an "encounter" that I should interject myself into and announce my CC status??? I think everyone would agree that that would not be required nor appropriate. What if that individual is a friend of mine but I had no participation in the littering? I would certainly think the start of my "encounter" would only begin once the officer addresses me.

I think a car "encounter" would follow similar rules.

 

[UtahCFP]

From my extensive experience (watching TV), the police have to pay attention to everyone in a car they have pulled over. On the other hand, if I were sitting in the back of a bus that was pulled over, I don't think I'd be part of the enounter.

Personally, I think I'd identify myself so as to abide by my primary rule... "don't do anything to make the officer nervous".

 

[Cinhil]

Utahcfp said:

Personally, I think I'd identify myself so as to abide by my primary rule... "don't do anything to make the officer nervous".

I also believe this should work in reverse as well. Of course, in the majority of circumstances, the officer and vehicle passengers have little idea of whom the other person is. This includes inherent knowledge of any abuses, tendencies, behaviors or influences which rule how anyone will act, or react in any given situation.

A person being pulled over may be just as anxious (nervous) as the officer may be. The fact that they are being approached by an officer could incite many wild imaginations based upon past personal experience, or that of friends or family. There is also the possibility that the individual could be hiding something, hate police or fear.

Regardless of any of the above, respect should be given by both parties involved. I also feel it would be inherently wrong for a officer who is a passenger to use their position to get their friend off. The decision to give a ticket, or to give a warning should be left wholly up to the officer who has pulled the vehicle over.

I also believe that the law is clearly written and that unless specifically questioned by an officer, even if you are a vehicle passenger, that you have no obligation to inform. But if questioned that is when you must inform.

Anyhow that is my take on it.

 

[tapehoser]

Whoa....think you need to shrink that avatar down a bit! :wink:

 

[Strategic Tactical]

GREAT TOPIC, one that I have had ome up in several classes. Ok, the U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that if an Officer makes a traffic stop, there is a bubble around the driver and that the officer can ONLY deal with the driver unless he has proable cause to speak to anyone else in the vehicle (Seat belts are GREAT for this).

You are only required to tell the officer if you are dealing with him profesionally. Is it a GOOD IDEA to let him know you, as a passanger, are armed? SURE IT IS, doesn't hurt anything and covers you just in case. This is just my 2 cents and info that we received in training as an officer. Not positive if it has changed.

 

[sedjester]

It's my understanding that unless the officer asks me to identify myself I am not under any requirements to divulge my carry status. If an officer wants to have a conversation with me, that is all it is. When he lets me know that I am under suspicion of doing something wrong then he will ask me to identify myself and my actions. It is at that time that I am required to let him know.

 

[sedjester]

In Oregon I do not have to inform the officer of my carry status unless specifically asked if I am carrying any weapons. I don't even have to identify myself if I'm not driving. If I decide to tell the officer my name I don't have to produce an ID to prove it.

Utah, on the other hand, has a "Stop and Identify" law that requires me to divulge my ID (and CFP if I am carrying) if an officer asks me to identify myself.