No, it's a great idea. There are a few people I would put in the list, but TJ (UTOC-45-44) and SGT Jensen know more than I do.
Clark Aposhian
Mitch Vilos
Mark Shurtleff (AG)
Clark Aposhian
Mitch Vilos
Mark Shurtleff (AG)
Who to contact about uninformed LEO's
I'm not sure if this is in the correct area, but I'm sure it will be moved if it isn't. I was curious to know if there was a place that we could write letters, or e-mails, or whatever to get police agencies to inform their officers of the carry laws. It seems that there are a fair number of people who are taken outside of businesses and questioned for lengthy periods of time for no good reason, other than the LEO doesn't know that it's okay to carry pistol with you as long as you aren't a felon. Anybody have any answers for that? I don't open carry, but I think that this would be a really good idea so that people won't be bothered by it. Or have the operators that handle the calls from scared citizens, let them know that it's okay that they have a firearm as long as they aren't holding up the business or something a BG would do. Any ideas?
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I'd think that the head (Chief, Sheriff, etc) of a particular agency would be the person to contact with a copy of the pertinent laws and a request that the information be disseminated to the rank and file.
Currently I'm working on sending letters to the following people (envelopes address and stamped):
-Captain Bruce Riches (c/o Lieutenant Al Christianson), Utah Highway Patrol (Orem)
-Sheriff James O. Tracy, Jr (c/o Sergeant Dennis Harris), Utah County Sherrif's Department
-Chief Michael J. Larsen, Orem PD
-Chief Craig Geslison, Provo PD
-Chief Chad Smith, Lehi PD
-Chief Cody B. Cullimore, Lindon PD
-Chief Tom Paul, Pleasant Grove PD
-Chief Lance M. Call, American Fork PD
-Mike Stilwell, Range Masters of Utah LC (Owner)
Why?
I was looking for information on Open Carry and had asked four State Troopers, two Utah County Deputies, and an employee at Range Masters of Utah. None gave me correct information and all gave different answers on OC, thus making me embark on my research of the Utah Gun Laws and more. After the debate with a Sportman's Warehouse employee in Provo about OC I decided that I'd like to write some letters and give out ScottyT's Utah Gun Law Pamphlet (already have his permission) to these agencies to help get harassment (because that I what I believe it to be) down from law-biding gun owners that OC or CC. More so with that Office Max fiasco where a cop grabbed someone's gun from his belt (oh, that set me off! Talk about dangerous from a PEACE officer).
Yeah, so I'm sending letters to all of those because they are in my area and where I would open carry/conceal carry. I'll see what kind of reply I get back so we'll see. I hope to have them out by Thursday so the letters can be on their desks on Monday. Once I complete the letter (still working on the wording so it doesn't seem like I'm telling their job or anything like that) I'll post it on here. I will be including links to UCC, OCDO, and reference to Mitch Vilos book "Utah Gun Law, 3rd Edition" and maybe suggest it as a "must read" (because I think it is after plugging through it the last two days).
-Captain Bruce Riches (c/o Lieutenant Al Christianson), Utah Highway Patrol (Orem)
-Sheriff James O. Tracy, Jr (c/o Sergeant Dennis Harris), Utah County Sherrif's Department
-Chief Michael J. Larsen, Orem PD
-Chief Craig Geslison, Provo PD
-Chief Chad Smith, Lehi PD
-Chief Cody B. Cullimore, Lindon PD
-Chief Tom Paul, Pleasant Grove PD
-Chief Lance M. Call, American Fork PD
-Mike Stilwell, Range Masters of Utah LC (Owner)
Why?
I was looking for information on Open Carry and had asked four State Troopers, two Utah County Deputies, and an employee at Range Masters of Utah. None gave me correct information and all gave different answers on OC, thus making me embark on my research of the Utah Gun Laws and more. After the debate with a Sportman's Warehouse employee in Provo about OC I decided that I'd like to write some letters and give out ScottyT's Utah Gun Law Pamphlet (already have his permission) to these agencies to help get harassment (because that I what I believe it to be) down from law-biding gun owners that OC or CC. More so with that Office Max fiasco where a cop grabbed someone's gun from his belt (oh, that set me off! Talk about dangerous from a PEACE officer).
Yeah, so I'm sending letters to all of those because they are in my area and where I would open carry/conceal carry. I'll see what kind of reply I get back so we'll see. I hope to have them out by Thursday so the letters can be on their desks on Monday. Once I complete the letter (still working on the wording so it doesn't seem like I'm telling their job or anything like that) I'll post it on here. I will be including links to UCC, OCDO, and reference to Mitch Vilos book "Utah Gun Law, 3rd Edition" and maybe suggest it as a "must read" (because I think it is after plugging through it the last two days).
OK, I like ScottyT's handout, and I've given it to a bunch of people. My concern with handing it out to LE and other authorities is that it's not particularly strong on OC. There is minimal information there about OC and it kind of states that you can do it, but it will cause you hassle, which is the whole reason to contact these chiefs. I just wouldn't want them to see that and think that they are either ignorant (as that's what it calls the LEOs) or as justification to harass you because of the wording. I think the pamphlet is good for the general public, but perhaps we should make a different one that targets business owners and LEOs, something more specific to them that stresses the legality of OC more fully. Perhaps include a quote from the AG using a transcript of the audio file I posted? Anyways, something more specific would be of better use I think.
And even better than any of this would be to have an official letter from the AG's office sent out to all the police/sheriffs departments in Utah stating that OC is legal and that harassment, detention and citation of citizens who OC will not be tolerated. Now that would be awesome!
Don't think that Orem has a Police Chief, but the "Director of Public Safety" is "Michael J. Larsen" http://www.orem.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=331&Itemid=337
Police Chief for American Fork, UT is "Lance M. Call" http://www.afcity.com/DE_Police.asp
Hope this helps.
gf
Police Chief for American Fork, UT is "Lance M. Call" http://www.afcity.com/DE_Police.asp
Hope this helps.
gf
I'm not a pamphlet maker, but I might be able to whip something together tonight after work if someone else more knowledgeable doesn't do it first.
That would be great if the AG did that. I understand concerned citizens wanting to protect themselves from someone that has a gun, but once a LEO see a clean record and that the OC person isn't doing anything wrong, just going about his/her business, to let the person go and not keep them there for two hours.GeneticsDave said:And even better than any of this would be to have an official letter from the AG's office sent out to all the police/sheriffs departments in Utah stating that OC is legal and that harassment, detention and citation of citizens who OC will not be tolerated. Now that would be awesome!
:agree: that would be sweet! I'm happy to see that Outsider is already on track to get this done for some of the agencies. Good job! Having it done throughout the entire state would be amazing. I hope the AG is reading this right now!GeneticsDave said:And even better than any of this would be to have an official letter from the AG's office sent out to all the police/sheriffs departments in Utah stating that OC is legal and that harassment, detention and citation of citizens who OC will not be tolerated. Now that would be awesome!
I called Orem PD and Michael J. Larsen is both Chief and Director of Public Safety.glock fan said:Don't think that Orem has a Police Chief, but the "Director of Public Safety" is "Michael J. Larsen" http://www.orem.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=331&Itemid=337
Police Chief for American Fork, UT is "Lance M. Call" http://www.afcity.com/DE_Police.asp
Hope this helps.
gf
I just finished my five page letter for all those I mentioned above. If anyone would like a copy please feel free to private message me or e-mail me ([email protected]) and I'll send a copy to you. Just a disclaimer this letter is my own opinion and my understanding of the law and my feelings about OC without a permit and OC with a permit. I'll expand out later to all other Utah County cities sometime in the near future.
nice... I want a copyOutsider said:I just finished my five page letter for all those I mentioned above. If anyone would like a copy please feel free to private message me or e-mail me ([email protected]) and I'll send a copy to you. Just a disclaimer this letter is my own opinion and my understanding of the law and my feelings about OC without a permit and OC with a permit. I'll expand out later to all other Utah County cities sometime in the near future.
Currently I'm making a huge list of all LEO offices in UT; City, County, and hwy patrol. So far I have a list of Davis county and up north of there
I'm hoping that we (on OC too) will take the effort to mail all these departments to get them informed
Joe
There's a good agency list list posted here... SL County Sheriff link pageusSiR said:nice... I want a copyOutsider said:I just finished my five page letter for all those I mentioned above. If anyone would like a copy please feel free to private message me or e-mail me ([email protected]) and I'll send a copy to you. Just a disclaimer this letter is my own opinion and my understanding of the law and my feelings about OC without a permit and OC with a permit. I'll expand out later to all other Utah County cities sometime in the near future.
Currently I'm making a huge list of all LEO offices in UT; City, County, and hwy patrol. So far I have a list of Davis county and up north of there
I'm hoping that we (on OC too) will take the effort to mail all these departments to get them informed
Joe
I was using this site for some help, close to what you posted.
I already found that every city isnt listed and did some more searches on the internet, I found that some cities share a department or use the county sheriff
http://www.utah.gov/government/citycounty.html
I already found that every city isnt listed and did some more searches on the internet, I found that some cities share a department or use the county sheriff
http://www.utah.gov/government/citycounty.html
Hey Outside, you've got a great idea there. Could you send one of those letters to Cheif Kip Botkin of the Lone Peak Public Safety District (20 N. Main Apline, Utah 84004)? The district covers two cities in northern Utah County (Apline, Highland).
Thanks for your work to support our 2nd amendment rights.
Scallywag
Thanks for your work to support our 2nd amendment rights.
Scallywag
Can someone let me know how I can get my hands (or eyes) on the above mentioned "ScottyT's Utah Gun Law Pamphlet"
Is it sold somewhere or is it just a person to person handout..?
Thanks
Is it sold somewhere or is it just a person to person handout..?
Thanks
Yeah, I will, soon as I get some more stamps.scallywag46 said:Hey Outside, you've got a great idea there. Could you send one of those letters to Cheif Kip Botkin of the Lone Peak Public Safety District (20 N. Main Apline, Utah 84004)? The district covers two cities in northern Utah County (Apline, Highland).
Thanks for your work to support our 2nd amendment rights.
Scallywag
I've almost got all of northen UT on a list, once I get past Utah county it will go faster
You sending letters to Utah County area as well? Good! PM/E-mail those agencies you send to just so I know to double up there as well and make sure my letters are going to the same, give them a combination "punch."usSiR said:I've almost got all of northen UT on a list, once I get past Utah county it will go faster
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