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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Nevada deems a vehicle an "Extension of you Home", allowing you to conceal and carry a weapon for security in your vehicle as you would in your own home. As of now Utah is against this, along with many other things regarding handguns, and probably won't allow it. Is there any light at the end of the tunnel on this??? I ride a motorcycle, a lot, and wonder if I open carry on a motorcycle is it considered concealed carry because it is a vehicle? Way to many "Grey Areas". Please enlighten me.
 

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As long as the firearm is in plain view and "Utah unloaded" you can carry on a motorcycle without a permit. If you have a permit, you can carry fully loaded and however you want on your motorcycle, openly or concealed.

If I recall correctly, something similar to extending the "Castle Doctrine" was in the works to being put towards personal vehicles, but I seem to remember it being shot down (or the bill it was included in was shot down). I'm a little fuzzy on that part, but I am sure another member can fill you in.

Simply stated, if you have your permit, you can carry in a lot more places with less legal "gray areas".
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
thanks for the reply! I will have a lot more liberties once my cc permit shows up, but for now I have to oc.
 

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Now this is totoally hypothetical, but I'm sure it exists somewhere - what do you do if your home is completely surrounded (all driving roads are zoned for schools) - actually it does exist right down the road from my house come to think about it. A culdesac and it's only roads buts out to a school zone. So you would have to go through a school zone to get out from your home.

How do you legally carry it out? I mean does it matter if it's loaded or not?
 

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L'attente said:
Now this is totoally hypothetical, but I'm sure it exists somewhere - what do you do if your home is completely surrounded (all driving roads are zoned for schools) - actually it does exist right down the road from my house come to think about it. A culdesac and it's only roads buts out to a school zone. So you would have to go through a school zone to get out from your home.

How do you legally carry it out? I mean does it matter if it's loaded or not?
The Utah Gun-Free School Zone Act says that if it's in your vehicle, it's not a violation of that act.

The federal Gun-Free School Zone Act says that if it's unloaded (really unloaded, not Utah-unloaded) and locked up, it's not a violation of that act.

Separately from those acts there's also the Utah prohibition against loaded carry, and that applies whether you're in a school zone or not. Utah also prohibits concealed carry, so you'd better have it openly visible.

Having a CFP exempts you from all of the above restrictions.

Finally, as a catchall rule to make sure that there's always SOME way to legally transport a firearm, regardless of how messy the other laws get, the federal Firearms Owner Protection Act says that if it's unloaded and in a location inaccessible from the passenger compartment (e.g. the trunk), then it doesn't matter what other state, local or federal laws might say -- it's legal. If your vehicle doesn't have a storage compartment that is inaccessible from the passenger compartment, but the gun is unloaded and in a locked case that is not a glove box or console, that also qualifies for FOPA protection.
 

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hahaha,
okay...I know it was sort of in jest asking that question - but honestly, if you don't know the laws and you read you can't carry in a school zone and you have to cross one it could lead to questions like mine. I live a couple streets from this school, and honestly never thought about it till just now, but it's good to know unloaded can get through - but it seems to ridiculous to have to stop on the other side just to holster up...I pity the people that live on the street that I know own and carry...but I'd be willing to bet they just drive through it because depending on your turn you'll go through it once you go through the intersection...

I felt like making a picture...I'm bored
 

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it's good to know unloaded can get through
That's completely unloaded and locked up. Not just unloaded.

So you not only have to unholster, you have to unholster, remove the mag and lock the gun up before entering the school zone, then reverse it on the way out, if you want to OC without a permit in Utah.

but I'd be willing to bet they just drive through it because depending on your turn you'll go through it once you go through the intersection...
I think the gun-free school zone laws get broken thousands of times per day, by people who don't have any idea they're doing anything wrong.

I think that just points out how silly the laws are, personally.
 

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It is a reasonably safe bet that if you were cited for driving through a school zone (in Utah) with a Utah unloaded gun on the passenger seat and took it to court you would win, or at least get the charges dropped/reduced as to not affect you. However unless you have the time and money to spend on this, and willing to risk losing (no matter how small the risk) it is better to be safe than sorry.

It is really easy to get a permit and after the cost of the class and permit will only run you about $100, then it is just a matter of waiting the 60 days (longest 60 days of your life :nilly: ) then you don't have to worry about carrying a gun (just about) anywhere in the state.
 

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xmirage2kx said:
It is a reasonably safe bet that if you were cited for driving through a school zone (in Utah) with a Utah unloaded gun on the passenger seat and took it to court you would win, or at least get the charges dropped/reduced as to not affect you.
I think it's even more likely that you would never be charged. It would be the local cops that stop you, and they don't have the authority to enforce federal law (though I think they could hold you), so they'd have to call in the FBI. The FBI would have to decide it's worth their time, and then the US Attorney would have to decide to charge you and prosecute. Given that the last time the federal GFSZA was challenged, it was struck down (US v Morrison), and given that Congress' new version isn't much improved, it's likely that trying to prosecute someone under this law is pointless. I think the only way they'd bother is if they arrested someone for other things (e.g. drugs) and decided to throw the GFSZA at them as well.

xmirage2k said:
However unless you have the time and money to spend on this, and willing to risk losing (no matter how small the risk) it is better to be safe than sorry.
+1

I don't think it's worth the risk, even though the risk is small. If you don't have a permit, I recommend getting a small gun safe and putting it in your car. Put the unloaded gun and full magazine in the safe and lock it, but leave the key in the lock. That way you're about three seconds away from having a fully-loaded weapon, but in complete compliance with the law.
 

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mad_cap_1 said:
Nevada deems a vehicle an "Extension of you Home", allowing you to conceal and carry a weapon for security in your vehicle as you would in your own home. As of now Utah is against this, along with many other things regarding handguns, and probably won't allow it. Is there any light at the end of the tunnel on this??? I ride a motorcycle, a lot, and wonder if I open carry on a motorcycle is it considered concealed carry because it is a vehicle? Way to many "Grey Areas". Please enlighten me.
I would be really interested to hear who told you that. In NV, it can be concealed in your vehicle (under the seat, glove box, center console or door pocket). If it's concealed on your person even if you are in your vehicle without NV CFP or a State NV recognizes, it's a category C felony per NRS 202.350.

The three States off the top of my head where you have an extension of your home with respect to having handguns in your vehicle without a CCW are LA, MO (21 or over) and NM.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
My brother, that live in Vegas, is the one that told me. Sorry I should have specified "in your vehicle vs. on your person in your vehicle".
 

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L'attente said:
I would have done it and not even realized.

But it does seem ridiculous - let's petition!
OK, get this guy into office and we can draft up all sorts of legislation in the UT Senate. If he doesn't submit it I'll feed him X-Lax next time he's over for dinner :twisted:
 

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mad_cap_1 said:
My brother, that live in Vegas, is the one that told me. Sorry I should have specified "in your vehicle vs. on your person in your vehicle".
What makes vehicle carry presently legal in NV is that there is no law prohibiting it plus a 1994 NV AG opinion clearly defining concealed carry. It's not because we have a State code, law, state or article of the NV State Constitution which explicitly allows it. In LA, MO and NM vehicle carry is explicitly protected by the respective State code, law, statute or an article within their respective State Constitution.
 
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