New Utah Constitutional Carry Bill

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New Utah Constitutional Carry Bill

Postby fx17 » Wed 19 Nov 2014 2:48 pm

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Re: New Utah Constitutional Carry Bill

Postby Creek » Wed 19 Nov 2014 5:11 pm

I've come to loathe the words "common sense". I can only think of Obama and those who want to take my rights away. I'd picked a very different name. I think most people will assume just from the name it's not good for gun owners.
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Re: New Utah Constitutional Carry Bill

Postby RoccoRacer » Wed 19 Nov 2014 6:25 pm

Creek wrote:I've come to loathe the words "common sense".

I'm offended that they think open carry is offensive. [logical conclusions since they say concealed is more polite]
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Re: New Utah Constitutional Carry Bill

Postby Uinta Firearms » Wed 19 Nov 2014 9:01 pm

Creek wrote:I've come to loathe the words "common sense". I can only think of Obama and those who want to take my rights away. I'd picked a very different name. I think most people will assume just from the name it's not good for gun owners.

If you take the dictionary definition of "common sense" literal we should be offended, and it makes perfectly clear sense why Obama is using it.

This definition is courtesy of dictionary.com.

common sense
noun
1. sound practical judgment that is independent of specialized knowledge, training, or the like; normal native intelligence.
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Re: New Utah Constitutional Carry Bill

Postby bagpiper » Thu 20 Nov 2014 1:49 pm

I think the wording is genius. It takes command of one of the more powerful words/phrases the antis have been using against us.

Nobody (I hope) on this list needs to be persuaded to support Constitutional Carry. The ad isn't aimed at us. It is aimed at the fence sitters. And with a little play, every time the antis invoke "common sense" we will have a built in memory device that causes the fence sitters to consider our point of view.

At this point I don't care if we call it the Flying Spaghetti Monster Carry bill if that will help get it passed.

It is time for Utah to take the nest step in giving these Constitutional Rights their due regard.

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Re: New Utah Constitutional Carry Bill

Postby J_dazzle23 » Thu 20 Nov 2014 2:13 pm

We darn near had it passed until gov herbert vetoed, right? If I remember correctly, it was (said) to keep the reciprocity of the Utah cfp. Not sure I buy it.
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Re: New Utah Constitutional Carry Bill

Postby Uinta Firearms » Thu 20 Nov 2014 2:49 pm

I worry that it'll cause us to lose some states, like Michigan, Colorado, and Pennsylvania, in regards to reciprocity. However, I'm unequivocally in favor of constitutional carry.
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Re: New Utah Constitutional Carry Bill

Postby ObiRich » Thu 20 Nov 2014 4:47 pm

I don't understand why it would hurt reciprocity. The Utah permit and process wouldn't have changed, just the requirement that you needed to have one while in the state of Utah. It was already discussed that if you wanted to carry outside Utah, you'd need to follow the laws of the state you were in, to include permits. That was a primary reason not to do away with the Utah permit system altogether.
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Re: New Utah Constitutional Carry Bill

Postby Photocell » Thu 20 Nov 2014 5:47 pm

So is this just a lobby to the legislature? Or do we actually have people drafting the bill and a sponsoring representative working on this bill for the 2015 session? It was unfortunate when HB76 was vetoed that it didn't get taken back up in the house being that it passed both with >2/3.
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Re: New Utah Constitutional Carry Bill

Postby bagpiper » Thu 20 Nov 2014 5:50 pm

A bill and sponsor are in the works.

But now is a great time to congratulate that legislative candidate you helped win his race and put a bug in his ear about how it is time to take the next step on more fully respecting RsKBA.

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Re: New Utah Constitutional Carry Bill

Postby D-FIN » Fri 21 Nov 2014 1:56 pm

I really don't like their video and how they portray open carry and how this would help solve the problem of someone grabbing your gun or someone calling the police because they saw your gun.
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Re: New Utah Constitutional Carry Bill

Postby bagpiper » Fri 21 Nov 2014 3:36 pm

D-FIN wrote:I really don't like their video and how they portray open carry and how this would help solve the problem of someone grabbing your gun or someone calling the police because they saw your gun.


This is not about open carry. This is about getting common sense constitutional carry passed. And again, it is aimed at the fence sitters, some of who don't much like open carry.

The message is simple, "If you don't like open carry, end the legal ban on concealed carry without government permission slips."

I trust nobody on this board needs any marketing to persuade them to support permit-free constitutional carry.

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Re: New Utah Constitutional Carry Bill

Postby DaKnife » Sat 22 Nov 2014 10:12 pm

But if you alienate your core constituency you harm your chances of success. We on the pro-side are very hesitant to support anything labeled common sense, we will mistrust anything so labeled as having a hidden trap. Why the mistrust? Because the anti's have grabbed the word and used it with great success. It bit us big time just after Sandy Hook with the infamous "90% of Americans support common sense actions like improved background checks" poll. They got that high level support because it sounded good across the board, then people realized what they meant by "common sense" and "improved background checks," and the numbers quickly plummeted below 50%, but they keep trotting out the 90%, and the much abused "Common Sense" Label.

Alienating your base of support by using terms they greatly miss-trust can backfire leading to another year without Constitutional carry, which does not eliminate the permit requirement to carry into a GFSZ. Yes I know other states have written their laws to state blanket permission for all citizens, but those statements have not been tested in court.

Bad verbiage in my opinion.
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Re: New Utah Constitutional Carry Bill

Postby quychang » Sun 23 Nov 2014 9:01 am

bagpiper wrote:I trust nobody on this board needs any marketing to persuade them to support permit-free constitutional carry.

Charles


Since you've thrown it out twice, I have to assume you're trolling for a discussion. I'll bite.

No, I don't need any persuasion to support permit-free constitutional carry. Publicly I'll support it, and if it came to a referendum I would certainly vote for it.

Privately, and on a discussion board with like minded people, I will say that I do have some reservations. While it's true that anyone can open carry now, without a permit, they do have, and I know you'll hate me using "their word", some commonsense restrictions.

It makes me a little nervous to envision a world where people as clueless as my own family could buy a gun, conceal it, and walk around without restrictions. Not only does it worry me from a standpoint of public safety, but also for their safety as well. Without at least some familiarity with basic safe handling skills, the chances of injuring themselves or others increase exponential in my opinion. In the old west, if you didn't have a clue and you were foolish enough to draw on someone that did, you were rather quickly removed from the gene pool, and chances are at least a few would learn from your mistake. Now days, unless you have a badge, carrying a gun isn't permit free permission to practice Darwinism. Yes, if you're threatened you can defend yourself, but that said, someone I respect recently said "Every bullet that leaves your gun has a lawyer attached to it." I certainly don't want to be a test case for having shot someone that fumbled their gun out of their holster and pointed it at me because they noticed I was carrying a gun, or I looked like the guy that beat up their sister last night, or any of a million other misguided reasons that someone might have for pulling their gun.

So, I agree, it's our constitutional right to carry, and I wouldn't make any of these comments in a public forum. Privately, I think with rights comes responsibility. And I would not be overly offended if choosing to exercise the right to carry came with the condition of demonstrating some safety skills. I understand that the constitution doesn't have a "but" in the wording. I will, however, point out that it was a very different world. To some extent, surviving required having basic gun skills. Particularly if you lived outside the cities. The founding fathers wrote a document based on the world they knew, and I'm not advocating changes, I'm just making the comment that they were human. They may not have thought everything through, particularly with no fore knowledge of the world to come.

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Re: New Utah Constitutional Carry Bill

Postby DaKnife » Sun 23 Nov 2014 2:39 pm

:agree: :agree: :agree:
SPOOOOOOON!!!

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