Rubio's Gun Bill

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Re: Rubio's Gun Bill

Postby D-FIN » Wed 28 Sep 2016 4:28 pm

I look at it this way. YOU KNOW WHAT HILLERY IS GOING TO DO. With Trump you don't know but things could still go our way. I don't really like Trump much but I'm not convinced that voting 3rd party will not just elect Hillery. I think Hillary's supporters are more true and Trumps are more divided. I am still a bit undecided on the 3rd Party issue. I'm not sure I like Johnson much and really don't like his running mate. I know almost nothing about the green party candidate.

If I saw a huge movement to DUMP both Trump and Hillary in the election and vote only 3rd party I would seriously consider that. I'd Love it if the country could all just stand up and vote 3rd party and say screw you to the current GOP and DNC folks.
Last edited by D-FIN on Fri 30 Sep 2016 4:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rubio's Gun Bill

Postby DaKnife » Thu 29 Sep 2016 4:43 am

D-FIN hit the nail on the head. Hillary will take the court hard left giving us a 7-3 Liberal court that would very likely reverse Heller in a heartbeat. Trump? He could do the same, but he's repeatedly promised to pick his nominees from the list of conservative justices he's provided. His views on guns are consistent with his background. he's a New Yorker and thus likely to see such restrictions as reasonable when much of the rest of the nation's Republicans do not. But while he might agree with such proposals, he's still not likely to try to force such through with an EO as that would exceed the authority for such and order, and congress is very unlikely to pass such a bill.

As it stands, regardless of who wins the Whitehouse, new gun control legislation is not likely to get to the president to sign, so new law wise neither will be able to change much. It will take a law to impose the No-fly no buy restriction, an executive order will not be able to implement such. Thus legislatively the candidates don't matter much. Even if the GOP loses the Senate,, the House is unlikely to swing far enough to give it to the Dems so gun control is dead on arrival. The one real threat is in the courts.

Hillary will take the Supreme Court hard left, Trump is an unknown but has made promises and repeated them that are very promising. I could see him sticking to the list to replace Scalia, and then looking elsewhere when Ginsberg and Kennedy step down. I could even see him trying to return us to the mostly balanced court we've had the last few years with solid 4-4 blocks and a key swing vote (Kennedy). Even that would be far preferable to a 7-3 left wing court.

In my Opinion, the future of the Court is the primary issue for this election. Presidents are very limited otherwise, but let one stack the court in a way that will likely take decades to reverse and those limits go away. We can look back and see what FDR was able to get away with after his threats to stack the court resulted in a Supreme Court that basically rubber stamped whatever he did, (Japanese Internment). He didn't actually stack the court, he just threatened to do so by promising to keep appointing more justices until he achieved a majority that would support him. Hillary could actually stack the court without having to change the number of Justices.

Vote Libertarian and you are splitting Trump's vote and helping Hillary. So ask yourself, is your distaste for him worth putting her in charge? She wins and the 2nd becomes a big target. Exactly what he'll do is uncertain, but what she'll do is certain.

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Re: Rubio's Gun Bill

Postby manithree » Thu 29 Sep 2016 8:56 am

DaKnife wrote:Vote Libertarian and you are splitting Trump's vote and helping Hillary.
Barack Obama wrote:If you vote for a third-party candidate who’s got no chance to win, that’s a vote for Trump.

So if I vote for Gary Johnson, I'm voting for Trump and Hillary.

Trump hasn't been elected, and he's already back-pedaling on 2A and his SCOTUS list. The fact is, nobody (including Donald Trump) has any idea what Donald Trump is going to do if he's elected.

And I know this is a strange and convoluted concept, but maybe, just maybe, a vote for Gary Johnson is a vote for .... Gary Johnson.

I know he isn't likely to win. But voting for a candidate just based on their likelihood of winning is not a strategy that makes any sense to me. I was pretty sure Obama was going to win in 2008. That didn't make me want to vote for him.
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Re: Rubio's Gun Bill

Postby gravedancer » Thu 29 Sep 2016 1:07 pm

for some of us at least, there are issues beyond the 2A ramifications that go into picking a political candidate. Yes, Clinton is far more likely do do long term damage via supreme court nominations, but Trump as president could have long lasting repercussions elsewhere (international relations for one). The bottom line is I think both mainstream candidates are terrible, and unlike most years, this year it seems like a significant number of people feel the same way. There are a lot of Dems who dont particularly care for Hillary, just as they are a lot of Republicans who dont care for Trump, so I dont think its safe to say that voting 3rd party is giving a vote to one or the other. Its entirely possible that the losses from one camp or the other will nullify each other, and that the result of a vote for a 3rd party is just that... a vote for a 3rd party. I dont think any 3rd party candidate is going to get enough votes to win, but maybe if both the Dems and republicans lose a significant number of votes to 3rd party candidates, it will be something of a wake up call for them that what they are doing is not working and is alienating a lot of people.
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Re: Rubio's Gun Bill

Postby bagpiper » Sun 02 Oct 2016 9:32 pm

gravedancer wrote:for some of us at least, there are issues beyond the 2A ramifications that go into picking a political candidate.

It is some of those other issues that absolutely prevent me from considering Gary Johnson. He seems to be LINO (Libertarian In Name Only) who is really just a leftist. He is clearly hostile to the free exercise of religion. The first thing that comes to his mind when asked about freedom of religion is Mountain Meadows. That is apparently the first thing that comes to his mind about LDS as well. That he seems to be wholly ignorant of the international players (ie foreign government heads) is also a major turn off to me. I may not agree fully with Rand Paul's Jimmy Carter-like assessment of various foreign affairs that leads him to always proclaim there is nothing we can do, but I give Rand Paul full credit for being very knowledgeable and intelligent.

At 18 I naively cast my first presidential vote for HW Bush thinking I was getting 4 more years of Reagan. I was a little young to remember it was Bush who coined the term "voodoo economics" to oppose Reagan's economic plans back in 1980. In the years since then, I've cast painfully few votes for the GOP POTUS nominee. With Utah being safely GOP I figured I could vote my conscience without worrying about it actually helping to elect the worse of the two evils.

Ironically, one of the worst GOP nominees may get my vote this year simply because I'm worried (just a bit) about Utah actually throwing our electoral votes the wrong way. Hillary would be the end of what little remains of our constitution with her judicial appointments.

Trump has put forward a list of those he will choose from for SCOTUS appointments that is quite acceptable. But there is certainly a whole lot about Trump that causes real concern.

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