Karl said:
When my buddy in Phoenix (old friend from high school daze) found out his local AZ constitutional carry did not help him in other states with reciprocity with AZ, he finally got his local CFP as well. That's the main problem with local constitutional carry laws -- they don't help you in other states.
I suppose constitutional carry is unpopular in most places except a few states that have it because most voters want people who are going to carry weapons to have some kind of background check and training.
There are now a full dozen States (almost 25% of all States in the Union) with some form of permit-free concealed carry now. Legislation is pending in one more that I know of as we "speak". And now Utah.
We are making progress a little at a time, State-by-State. When Florida went non-discriminatory issue of carry permits in the early 90s, those permits did nothing to help outside Florida. Today, a Florida or Utah permit is recognized in over 30 States (some 36 for a Utah permit held by a Utah resident, a couple fewer if it is held by a non-Utah-resident).
We are also doing our part to set the national norm, which can help influence SCOTUS decisions. If you look at the SCOTUS decision in which the court outlawed executions for those who committed otherwise capital offenses while still minors, the court explicitly cited the number of States that already had such a ban in place as part of determining what is or isn't permissible under the prohibition on "cruel and unusual" punishments.
Perhaps most importantly, we are doing what we can do to properly recognize the RKBA as it should be. We would not tolerate permits--no matter how easy to obtain--in order to publish or read a newspaper, to preach a sermon or attend church, to access a lawyer if accused of a crime, nor to be secure in our papers, persons, and effects.
Karl said:
Carrying UN-loaded is a joke anywhere. Anyone seeing your firearm can jump you and wrestle it away from you. If you have never wrestled in high school or college in your life you have no idea how hard it is to wrestle, and how easy it would be for a wrestler to get your gun away from you. That's why unloaded is a joke.
Utah-unloaded only requires that the chamber be empty on a semi-auto. (It is a tad more complicated for a revolver depending on whether it is single or double action, etc).
A full magazine, but with an empty chamber is known as "Utah unloaded". It is also known as "
Israeli Carry" because the Israeli military is known for carrying this way. But they are hardly alone. From the linked article:
Chamber empty carry was the dominant method of carry for military, police, and civilians for most of the 20th Century. Toward the end of the century the rise of double-action autoloaders and the influence of Jeff Cooper's Modern Technique made significant inroads, although chamber empty is still the dominant method of carry worldwide.
If one carries concealed, how would anyone know to jump you and grab your gun? Most who OC choose a retention holster to make it difficult for others to grab the gun.
In either case, good situational awareness is crucial. A loaded gun, in a retention holster, concealed so the bad guy doesn't know it is there, is still of very little benefit if the bad guy sneaks up on you and hits you over the head with a tire iron. This is the common argument the gun haters make against carrying of defensive arms by private citizens.
Our response has always been that a gun is one tool, not a talisman. Situational awareness is always critical and itself, can help ward off many attacks that might occur if a target looks soft or easy. Without situational awareness, carry a gun is not much good and can even be a liability. With good situational awareness, a gun becomes a great benefit, one more option for those cases where it makes sense.
I think all here will agree that under current laws and culture both in Utah and nationwide, for most of us, obtaining and maintaining a Utah permit makes a lot of sense for the foreseeable future. But we also desire to advance statutory recognition of our right to own and carry firearms (including to buy, sell, trade, gift, manufacture, modify, etc) to where those rights are truly co-equal with all other constitutionally enumerated rights. This bill is a small, but crucial step in that direction.
It is good to have you back in Utah. While you were away, there was some history transpire that might be worth catching up on before making too firm of pronouncements about what is or isn't a good idea legislatively.
I look forward to having your help as we work together to protect and advance our RKBA.
Charles