Constitutional Carry (again)

We will try to post current legislative bills that relate to Gun Control issues in this Forum. This includes bills in the Utah Legislature and U.S. Congress.

Re: Constitutional Carry (again)

Postby JoeSparky » Sun 22 Jan 2017 7:49 pm

jfwright1955 wrote:
JoeSparky wrote:
jfwright1955 wrote:I've already put him on ignore. Pretty soon he'll be down to an audience of one... himself.

There is hope! Maybe a moderator with step in and "suggest" a change in his behaviors! :disgusted:

Would be nice. But, since taking over the site the new admins and moderators and been silent. I think we're abandoned on a desert island with a troublemaker. Wish he'd go find a new island.

Don't really care if it finds an island or not----just inviting it to leave!
JoeSparky
GOA Life Member
NRA Life Member
NAGR Member
UCC
OCDO

Remember IANAL
Praying that OUR Country can be returned to it's greatness and to it's CONSTITUTION!
JoeSparky
Sniper
 
Posts: 2901
Joined: Tue 08 Jul 2008 2:34 am
Location: Pleasant Grove, Utah

Re: Constitutional Carry (again)

Postby DaKnife » Mon 23 Jan 2017 5:20 am

Karl: Are you so dense that you cannot see that you have now managed to insult everyone who has tried to address your boorish behavior and overall lack of netiquette. You reply to valid arguments with insults and arrogant dismissal without addressing the arguments you try to ignore or insult your way out of.

Contrary to your repeated claims: you have not in fact listed pros and cons other than that you don't think the law should change (why anyone would oppose increasing right to carry is beyond me) and that the Governor opposes it. It has been repeatedly explained in brief and at length the flaws in your position. We who have addressed you are not new comers to this state or this forum and Utah's legislative and legal system but have been involved in the process for years and even decades. Bagpiper for example is on Capital hill every year and has been for years as one of the leading lobbyists and spokesmen for the community. While you are a new comer to both the state and the forum with no credibility to back up anything you say.

We have seen Utah slowly but surely improve the RKBA of citizens of this state. For years we have led the nation in our RKBA but in regards to Constitutional carry we have fallen behind the curve and will fall further this year if this does not pass. Even if it does pass it won't be even bringing us back even with the other states that have passed Const Carry.

Expecting us to meet you at the dinner to gain your good graces is not going to happen. The dinner is not on my schedule, I have other plans and your presence is making such a dinner even less a desired event. You sir are rude, and boorish. You need to change your tactics and try showing a little respect if you want to participate. At this rate you are soon to be simply ignored by everyone. At least until we can get some moderation working again here. Stop trolling and try to actually participate rather than trying to dominate the discussion.

p.s. you are far closer to Alzheimer's age than those you have accused of suffering from such. Pot meet Kettle.
SPOOOOOOON!!!

WARNING: This comment may contain chemicals known to the State of California to cause cancer and birth defects or other reproductive harm, in every other state it may increase intelligence and knowledge.
User avatar
DaKnife
Sniper
 
Posts: 2400
Joined: Thu 06 Jan 2011 12:16 pm
Location: Riverdale

Re: Constitutional Carry (again)

Postby bumpylight » Mon 23 Jan 2017 6:43 am

Successful troll has successfully trolled. If I ever do write that book about how to fight back against trolls at all levels of society, this thread will provide a substantial amount of background material. I'll nonetheless provide in brief one of the most important ways to crush trolls:

Mr. Gravitas: "Ah, there you are again."
Troll: "Yeah! Blabber, blabber, blabber!"
Mr. Gravitas: "I'm sorry, Troll. You doubtless remember the last time you showed up here with your nonsense. Our esteemed Mr. Cogent tore apart your main points and showed furthermore that you were purposefully dealing with us in bad faith. Now that we know you have no intention of dealing with us in good faith, everything you blabber will be utterly ignored. Also, we have obtained a restraining order against you. You'll have to leave now."
Troll: "Huh, don't care! Blabber, blabber, blabber!" (Cops show up to arrest Troll for trespassing, stalking, harassment and other offenses.)
Troll: "BLABBER!" (Silence falls with a sigh of mercy.)

(BTW, I've already tossed the blessed blanket of silence over Troll and have been seeing only one-line notifications of still more gratuitous insults, illogical nonsense and repetitious propaganda. Frankly, I feels sowwy for anyone who hasn't already availed himself of that easy remedy.)
Last edited by bumpylight on Mon 23 Jan 2017 8:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
bumpylight
Marksman
 
Posts: 215
Joined: Tue 26 Feb 2013 4:08 pm

Re: Constitutional Carry (again)

Postby Snurd » Mon 23 Jan 2017 7:31 am

I really wish that when the thought of selling this forum came up, it would have been offered to the members. I may not have been able to front all of the money, but I bet we have enough people here that care about it and the way it runs, that we could have bought it.

Ever since it was sold to some big agency that runs other forums, it has turned to crap. We lost a lot of good members, and there are no mods at all. It's too bad.


Sent from iSnurd
Snurd
Posse
 
Posts: 9873
Joined: Sat 19 Jan 2008 10:24 am
Location: SLC

Re: Constitutional Carry (again)

Postby jfwright1955 » Mon 23 Jan 2017 7:37 am

Snurd wrote:I really wish that when the thought of selling this forum came up, it would have been offered to the members. I may not have been able to front all of the money, but I bet we have enough people here that care about it and the way it runs, that we could have bought it.

Ever since it was sold to some big agency that runs other forums, it has turned to crap. We lost a lot of good members, and there are no mods at all. It's too bad.

Sent from iSnurd

:agree:
What he said. Ownership by it's forum members would have been a win for so many reasons. Maybe now Karl's driven away the audience we could get it for pennies on the dollar. :wink:
John
NRA RSO
No one should make decisions for us when it comes to guns and gun carry. If we do things we're not comfortable with because someone told us it's 'right' it becomes a distraction in an event where clarity and simplicity is needed.
User avatar
jfwright1955
Sniper
 
Posts: 1045
Joined: Sun 13 Jan 2013 9:15 am
Location: Marana, AZ

Re: Constitutional Carry (again)

Postby jfwright1955 » Mon 23 Jan 2017 7:40 am

bumpylight wrote:Successful troll has successfully trolled. If I ever do write that book about how to fight back against trolls at all levels of society, this thread will provide a substantial amount of background material. I'll nonetheless provide in brief one of the most important ways to crush trolls:

Mr. Gravitas: "Ah, there you are again."
Troll: "Yeah! Blabber, blabber, blabber!"
Mr. Gravitas: "I'm sorry, Troll. You doubtless remember the last time you showed up here with your nonsense. Our esteemed Mr. Cogent tore apart your main points and showed furthermore that you were purposefully dealing with us in bad faith. Now that we know you have no intention of dealing with us in good faith, everything you blabber will be utterly ignored. Also, we have obtained a restraining order against you. You'll have to leave now."
Troll: "Huh, don't care! Blabber, blabber, blabber!" (Cops show up to arrest Troll for trespassing, stalking, harassment and other charges.)
Troll: "BLABBER!" (Silence falls with a sigh of mercy.)

(BTW, I've already tossed the blessed blanket of silence over Troll and have been seeing only one-line notifications of still more gratuitous insults, illogical nonsense and repetitious propaganda. Frankly, I feels sowwy for anyone who hasn't already availed himself of that easy remedy.)

:spit:
I'll be in line to buy your first release at signing, bumpylight. :thumbsup:
John
NRA RSO
No one should make decisions for us when it comes to guns and gun carry. If we do things we're not comfortable with because someone told us it's 'right' it becomes a distraction in an event where clarity and simplicity is needed.
User avatar
jfwright1955
Sniper
 
Posts: 1045
Joined: Sun 13 Jan 2013 9:15 am
Location: Marana, AZ

Re: Constitutional Carry (again)

Postby jfwright1955 » Mon 23 Jan 2017 7:56 am

Saw this on Facebook and found it quite apropos given the current situation with a particular person whom I won't even give credit by naming.

14955986_1328953543781440_9084332505174690617_n.jpg
Sign Of Maturity
14955986_1328953543781440_9084332505174690617_n.jpg (29.44 KiB) Viewed 1546 times

:spit:
John
NRA RSO
No one should make decisions for us when it comes to guns and gun carry. If we do things we're not comfortable with because someone told us it's 'right' it becomes a distraction in an event where clarity and simplicity is needed.
User avatar
jfwright1955
Sniper
 
Posts: 1045
Joined: Sun 13 Jan 2013 9:15 am
Location: Marana, AZ

Re: Constitutional Carry (again)

Postby bumpylight » Mon 23 Jan 2017 8:07 am

It's fun when the holdout states start feeling pressure to keep up with other states in steadily expanding recognition of individual firearms rights, isn't it? The day may come soon when Utah, Arizona, Alaska, Montana, Wyoming, Florida, Texas, Missouri and many other well-dressed states are chatting lightly together at the center of the garden of the people, occasionally casting stern looks at the distant cluster of California, Hawaii and a couple of other states dressed in shabby rags that resemble nothing so much as shredded bits of the Constitution. The latter group of states seems increasingly nervous and isolated, and the stink of their desperation grows by the minute as they repeatedly jerk at the slightest motion from a black-clad murder of nine judges standing like dark angels at the gate of the garden. 8)

DaKnife wrote:[....]

[....] We have seen Utah slowly but surely improve the RKBA of citizens of this state. For years we have led the nation in our RKBA[,] but in regards to Constitutional carry[,] we have fallen behind the curve and will fall further this year if this does not pass. Even if it does pass it won't be even bringing us back even with the other states that have passed Const[itutional] Carry.

[....]


In passing, I'll note also that I was especially offended by the multiple attempts by the current troll in residence to use the mere existence itself of dementia as a tool to attack several commenters. Dementia, especially the notorious form thereof called Alzheimer's disease, is a terrible family of diseases that slowly destroys the essence of individuality and places an unbearable burden on family members. My own extended family has seen this sorrow up front and personally, and I can only coldly ignore a troll who casually whips it around like a child's slingshot toy for his own gratification. :bat:

DaKnife wrote:[....]

[....] Stop trolling and try to actually participate rather than trying to dominate the discussion.

[P.S.] [Y]ou are far closer to Alzheimer's age than those you have accused of suffering from such. Pot[,] meet Kettle.


(BTW, please excuse the corrective notes on punctuation and wording -- I've been busy again with heavy writing and editing for clients, and the urge to edit and correct everything in sight grows great.) :ROFL:
User avatar
bumpylight
Marksman
 
Posts: 215
Joined: Tue 26 Feb 2013 4:08 pm

Re: Constitutional Carry (again)

Postby bumpylight » Mon 23 Jan 2017 9:11 am

I was inspired by that image and by my little inner writing clown to dash off a quick mirror meme largely meant as a threadbare excuse to trot out my beloved Henny Penny font:

leftism-mantra_0002.png
leftism-mantra_0002.png (17.02 KiB) Viewed 1539 times


I apologize for the lack of a better background such as Ye Olde Wood or Wild 1960s Psychedelic. :oops:

jfwright1955 wrote:Saw this on Facebook and found it quite apropos given the current situation with a particular person whom I won't even give credit by naming.
User avatar
bumpylight
Marksman
 
Posts: 215
Joined: Tue 26 Feb 2013 4:08 pm

Re: Constitutional Carry (again)

Postby gravedancer » Mon 23 Jan 2017 11:17 am

Karl wrote:
The best thing would be to read Heller carefully, and also count carefully when someone lists pro's and con's.

If after that you still want to cheerlead then put on your tutu's and get your pompoms first.


Image
Last edited by gravedancer on Mon 23 Jan 2017 11:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
Image
http://bit.ly/2vHUiug will get you around the auto filtering of the domain on this site
gravedancer
Sniper
 
Posts: 1791
Joined: Mon 21 Mar 2011 1:46 pm

Re: Constitutional Carry (again)

Postby gravedancer » Mon 23 Jan 2017 11:21 am

Snurd wrote:I really wish that when the thought of selling this forum came up, it would have been offered to the members. I may not have been able to front all of the money, but I bet we have enough people here that care about it and the way it runs, that we could have bought it.

Ever since it was sold to some big agency that runs other forums, it has turned to crap. We lost a lot of good members, and there are no mods at all. It's too bad.


Sent from iSnurd


Id agree with the sentiments expressed here.
Image
http://bit.ly/2vHUiug will get you around the auto filtering of the domain on this site
gravedancer
Sniper
 
Posts: 1791
Joined: Mon 21 Mar 2011 1:46 pm

Re: Constitutional Carry (again)

Postby Karl » Mon 23 Jan 2017 11:36 am

Here are the operative points of Heller on this issue:

Like most rights, the right secured by the Second Amendment is not unlimited. From Blackstone throughthe 19th-century cases, commentators and courts routinely explained that the right was not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose. See, e.g., Sheldon, in 5 Blume 346; Rawle 123; Pomeroy 152–153; Abbott 333. For example, the majority of the 19th-century courts to consider the question held that prohibitions on carrying concealed weapons were lawful under the Second Amendment or state analogues. See, e.g., State v. Chandler, 5 La. Ann., at 489–490; Nunn v. State, 1 Ga., at 251; see generally 2Kent *340, n. 2; The American Students’ Blackstone 84, n. 11 (G. Chase ed. 1884).
Karl
Marksman
 
Posts: 171
Joined: Thu 06 Oct 2016 12:45 pm

Re: Constitutional Carry (again)

Postby jfwright1955 » Mon 23 Jan 2017 12:35 pm

"If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?"
John
NRA RSO
No one should make decisions for us when it comes to guns and gun carry. If we do things we're not comfortable with because someone told us it's 'right' it becomes a distraction in an event where clarity and simplicity is needed.
User avatar
jfwright1955
Sniper
 
Posts: 1045
Joined: Sun 13 Jan 2013 9:15 am
Location: Marana, AZ

Re: Constitutional Carry (again)

Postby morcey2 » Mon 23 Jan 2017 2:39 pm

jfwright1955 wrote:"If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?"


I thought it was "If a man speaks in the forest and there is no woman around to correct him, is he still wrong?" :grinningjester:
NRA Certified Rifle Instructor
NRA Certified Shotgun Instructor
NRA Certified Pistol Instructor.
NRA Certified Muzzleloading Rifle Instructor
NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
Purveyor of bad jokes.
morcey2
Expert Marksman
 
Posts: 581
Joined: Wed 30 Nov 2011 6:07 pm
Location: South Utah County

Re: Constitutional Carry (again)

Postby bagpiper » Mon 23 Jan 2017 2:53 pm

Karl wrote:Here are the operative points of Heller on this issue:


And what does any of this have to do with a State legislature choosing to legalize permit-free carry, Karl?

Other than the fact that this is why we are having to push for legislative relief rather than having the courts just overturn the statutory prohibition on carrying concealed without a permit?

Are you just unhappy with the vernacular of calling permit-free carry "constitutional carry"? Or do you have a point to make against this bill?

Charles
bagpiper
Sniper
 
Posts: 3107
Joined: Tue 09 Nov 2010 8:31 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Utah & Federal Bills For or Against Gun Control

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests