Bill to dissolve the ATF

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Bill to dissolve the ATF

Postby Snurd » Fri 13 Jan 2017 1:59 pm

I haven't visited Bearing Arms for a while, and decided to beak around a bit today. I found this article saying, in short, that there is a bill to dissolve the ATF. The duties would be shifted to the FBI and DEA.

https://bearingarms.com/bob-o/2017/01/1 ... ering-atf/
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Re: Bill to dissolve the ATF

Postby JoeSparky » Fri 13 Jan 2017 2:59 pm

While I support "dissolving" the ATF, why not just "dissolve" any and all federal agencies which do not have US CONSTITUTIONAL authorization for their functions? This would truly be a much loftier goal!
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Re: Bill to dissolve the ATF

Postby Snurd » Fri 13 Jan 2017 3:16 pm

JoeSparky wrote:While I support "dissolving" the ATF, why not just "dissolve" any and all federal agencies which do not have US CONSTITUTIONAL authorization for their functions? This would truly be a much loftier goal!

Baby steps. :lol2:


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Re: Bill to dissolve the ATF

Postby JoeSparky » Fri 13 Jan 2017 8:50 pm

Snurd wrote:
JoeSparky wrote:While I support "dissolving" the ATF, why not just "dissolve" any and all federal agencies which do not have US CONSTITUTIONAL authorization for their functions? This would truly be a much loftier goal!

Baby steps. :lol2:


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Not even steps yet and won't be even a "crawl" until the ATF is dissolved!
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Re: Bill to dissolve the ATF

Postby dewittdj » Fri 13 Jan 2017 10:00 pm

Maybe just remove the "F" from BATFE. :disgusted:
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Re: Bill to dissolve the ATF

Postby morcey2 » Fri 13 Jan 2017 10:21 pm

How can Bill dissolve the ATF? He hasn't been president since 2001. Are you saying that we've just been pretending to have new presidents for the last 16 years?

:dancing:

(Yes, It's late on Friday and I'm waiting for the washer to finish so I have something clean to wear tomorrow. It's the best I could come up with, ok.)

(And as a side note, the above dancing-banana smilie dances in almost perfect rhythm with "We're Mad" by the Toy Dolls. Noticed that today at work.)

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Re: Bill to dissolve the ATF

Postby jfwright1955 » Sat 14 Jan 2017 9:03 am

morcey2 wrote:How can Bill dissolve the ATF? He hasn't been president since 2001. Are you saying that we've just been pretending to have new presidents for the last 16 years?
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It took a strong cup of coffee, Matt, before my brain finally kicked in. :oops: Almost like hearing a jokes' punchline and catching the drift 2 hours later and bursting out into laugher in a crowded elevator... not that I've ever done that mind you. :wink:
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Re: Bill to dissolve the ATF

Postby Karl » Sat 14 Jan 2017 10:48 am

JoeSparky wrote:While I support "dissolving" the ATF, why not just "dissolve" any and all federal agencies which do not have US CONSTITUTIONAL authorization for their functions? This would truly be a much loftier goal!

Article 1, Section 8, contains the "necessary and proper clause" which empowers the Congress to legislate such things as the U.S. Code, which has 54 titles within in, as well as other acts including the Judiciary Act of 1789 in which the Office of U.S. Attorney General was created under Article 3, Section 1. That's where the Federal law enforcement agencies come from.

It was upheld as constitutional under Chief Justice John Marshall.

Note that back then the SCOTUS only had 6 total justices. Not 9 like today. So we probably should be fine with just 8 for now, while Schumer filibusters any new nominations in reprisal for McConnell not bringing BHO's last one to the floor for a vote.

This clause (Art 1, Sec '8) makes it rather erroneous to assert that just because the ATF, FBI etc are not specifically mentioned in the Constitution that they are therefore unconstitutional. At least, John Marshall disagreed with you at the time.

You could probably argue that the Marines, Air Force, and Coast Guard are unconstitutional too because they are not mentioned in the Constitution either. Only the Army and Navy are.
Last edited by Karl on Sat 14 Jan 2017 12:18 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Bill to dissolve the ATF

Postby Karl » Sat 14 Jan 2017 10:56 am

Snurd wrote:I haven't visited Bearing Arms for a while, and decided to beak around a bit today. I found this article saying, in short, that there is a bill to dissolve the ATF. The duties would be shifted to the FBI and DEA.

https://bearingarms.com/bob-o/2017/01/1 ... ering-atf/

This reminds me of the Reagan peace dividend in terms of its futility.

ATF deals in interstate trafficking of booze, tobacco, and firearms, as well as ammo, explosives, acts of arson, and so forth.

The FBI and DEA already have their hands full. They don't need to be bloated more with yet another agency's responsibilities.

Looks like this is a Jim Sensenbrenner (R-Wisc) bill. Wonder who pee'ed into his cornflakes?
Last edited by Karl on Sat 14 Jan 2017 12:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bill to dissolve the ATF

Postby Karl » Sat 14 Jan 2017 11:01 am

I hope nobody is "off-put" by my sometimes "off-putting" rebuttals.

I know in other threads various sensitive individuals have become very off put, or so it is said.

I am just giving you another point of view to consider.

Good luck then.

It will be fun to put names with faces at the next open carry dinner.
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Re: Bill to dissolve the ATF

Postby Karl » Sat 14 Jan 2017 12:13 pm

The history of each of these several Federal law enforcement agencies is fascinating. One of them is even pre-constitutional.

The first was the US Postal Police, organized in 1772 by Benjamin Franklin, the same Grand Master of the Pennsylvania Grand Lodge of Freemasons that organized the American Revolution, the Army, the Navy, and the Marines. The US Postal Police is still around.

Next was the US Marshal Service, organized in 1789 the same year as the US Constitution was ratified. They were created by the Congress and by George Washington.

The third was the US Park Police in 1791, also by Geo. Wash.

That was it for the longest time until the US Civil War, when counterfeiting of the Federal currency spawned the need for the Treasury's Secret Service, in 1865.

All the other various Federal law enforcement agencies like the FBI, ATF, etc. spun off from the USSS.

ATF was first organized within the USSS in 1886 as the revenue arm of the USSS. The ATF then moved over to the IRS in 1920 during prohibition. Then in 1930 it was moved into the FBI. Then back to the USSS in 1933.

The FBI had spun off from the USSS in 1908 by Teddy Roosevelt. Their first job was to investigate trafficking in prostitution ("white slavery").

In 1972 (not long ago -- Nixon was president -- at least for a little while longer) the ATF became independent.

So we have had an independent ATF for 45 years but a semblance of one for over 131 years.

The ATF's original purpose was to collect taxes on booze and tobacco. Now it does neither. The IRS does that alone.

But the ATF are the bomb experts in America today.

Maybe Sensenbrenner would be happy if we just renamed the ATF as the FBE -- Federal Bureau of Explosives ?!
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Re: Bill to dissolve the ATF

Postby D-FIN » Mon 16 Jan 2017 1:39 pm

Karl wrote:I hope nobody is "off-put" by my sometimes "off-putting" rebuttals.

I know in other threads various sensitive individuals have become very off put, or so it is said.

I am just giving you another point of view to consider.

Good luck then.

It will be fun to put names with faces at the next open carry dinner.


Time to let it go dude
You can't win the sheep over to your side if your always showing them your fangs.

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Re: Bill to dissolve the ATF

Postby Cinhil » Mon 16 Jan 2017 6:46 pm

Karl wrote:I hope nobody is "off-put" by my sometimes "off-putting" rebuttals.

I know in other threads various sensitive individuals have become very off put, or so it is said.

I am just giving you another point of view to consider.

Good luck then.

It will be fun to put names with faces at the next open carry dinner.


Off Topic; Our first get together of 2017 will be at Wallaby's @ 9228 S Village Shop Drive Sandy, UT 84092. on the 31st of January anytime from 7-9 pm - open or concealed.
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Re: Bill to dissolve the ATF

Postby Karl » Tue 17 Jan 2017 12:27 pm

D-FIN wrote:
Karl wrote:I hope nobody is "off-put" by my sometimes "off-putting" rebuttals.

I know in other threads various sensitive individuals have become very off put, or so it is said.

I am just giving you another point of view to consider.

Good luck then.

It will be fun to put names with faces at the next open carry dinner.


Time to let it go dude

Just saying ...
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