2017 Permit Free Carry, HB 112

[bagpiper]

In hopes of having a separate thread to track the progress of this bill, and get word out about any hearings or other actions, I've started this thread.

Lee Perry is the sponsor for HB 112, "Firearm Amendments", or as we know it, permit-free carry or constitutional carry.

Language for this bill is available at the Legislative website at http://le.utah.gov/~2017/bills/static/HB0112.html

This bill does two primary things:

1-For those 21 years of age and older, removes the prohibition on carrying a "Utah-unloaded" firearm concealed without a permit.

It allows a gun to be carried concealed without a permit, under the same conditions that it may be OC'd without a permit.

2-Extends criminal and civil liability protection to any business owner who allows a person with a permit, to carry into that business.

It does not change off-limits locations including locations where one needs a permit to legally carry (school zones including, under Utah's GFSZ law, colleges). Obviously, the bill has no effect on the federal GFSZ with its 1000' exclusion zone around all K-12 schools except for those with a permit from the State in which the school is located. It does not change the conditions under which you can use a gun. It does not change the conditions for obtaining a permit.

If passed, this would be a rather small, but I believe crucial step, toward greater statutory recognition of our Rights to keep and bear arms as protected and guaranteed by both the federal and Utah State constitutions.

Charles

[Karl]

We have no such rights.

Concealed carry has always been by state legislative grace.

Scalia explained all this in Heller.

[jfwright1955]

In hopes of having a separate thread to track the progress of this bill, and get word out about any hearings or other actions, I've started this thread.

Lee Perry is the sponsor for HB 112, "Firearm Amendments", or as we know it, permit-free carry or constitutional carry.

Language for this bill is available at the Legislative website at http://le.utah.gov/~2017/bills/static/HB0112.html

This bill does two primary things:

1-For those 21 years of age and older, removes the prohibition on carrying a "Utah-unloaded" firearm concealed without a permit.

It allows a gun to be carried concealed without a permit, under the same conditions that it may be OC'd without a permit.

2-Extends criminal and civil liability protection to any business owner who allows a person with a permit, to carry into that business.

It does not change off-limits locations including locations where one needs a permit to legally carry (school zones including, under Utah's GFSZ law, colleges). Obviously, the bill has no effect on the federal GFSZ with its 1000' exclusion zone around all K-12 schools except for those with a permit from the State in which the school is located. It does not change the conditions under which you can use a gun. It does not change the conditions for obtaining a permit.

If passed, this would be a rather small, but I believe crucial step, toward greater statutory recognition of our Rights to keep and bear arms as protected and guaranteed by both the federal and Utah State constitutions.

Charles

Thanks for posting this, Charles, and for your synopsis. I'll freely admit I don't read the bills in depth so I appreciate your factual updates on these matters.

[bagpiper]

(off topic arrogant legal fecal matter deleted).

There is a different thread for discussing the merits of this bill. This thread it intended to discuss its progress through the legislature and what effect it will have on Utah law if passed. Since this is the Utah legislature acting, they are fully empowered to act even under your anti-RKBA bootlicking view of the world. Since this is Utah, Art 1 Sec 6 of the Utah State constitution has at least as much bearing as the 2nd article of amendment to the US Constitution. Your love affair with Scalia's opinions which had to be crafted to keep Kennedy on board, are entirely irrelevant.

Demonstrate at least the minimal on-line etiquette to keep your crap opinions in the thread where they belong.

I've seen what one arrogant jerk can do to kill off another pro-gun forum. We don't need our own version of solus killing off the Utah forum with similar insufferable sanctimoniousness.

[mkeeney]

Speaking of Lt. Perry's Bill, the Standard Examiner is up to their usual tricks declaring that the bill will "eliminate" concealed firearm permits. I don't even think the Standard tries to get anything right, ever.

http://www.standard.net/Our-View/2017/0 ... -2013.html

Of course, two of the comments (when I'm writing this) are from the usual lefties that post there....(sigh).

[bagpiper]

Speaking of Lt. Perry's Bill, the Standard Examiner is up to their usual tricks declaring that the bill will "eliminate" concealed firearm permits. I don't even think the Standard tries to get anything right, ever.

http://www.standard.net/Our-View/2017/0 ... -2013.html

Of course, two of the comments (when I'm writing this) are from the usual lefties that post there....(sigh).

Comments that correct the lies, and letters to the editor often seem pointless. But in aggregate they can add up to helping reveal the truth to those fence sitters who care about the truth.

It is up to we in the pro-RKBA community to help get the truth out about what this bill does and what it doesn't do.

It has zero effect on Utah's highly successfully, very valuable carry permit. (And one advantage of this bill is the way it all but forces certain gun haters to start singing the praises of our permit. )

Charles

[mkeeney]

Speaking of Lt. Perry's Bill, the Standard Examiner is up to their usual tricks declaring that the bill will "eliminate" concealed firearm permits. I don't even think the Standard tries to get anything right, ever.

http://www.standard.net/Our-View/2017/0 ... -2013.html

Of course, two of the comments (when I'm writing this) are from the usual lefties that post there....(sigh).

Comments that correct the lies, and letters to the editor often seem pointless. But in aggregate they can add up to helping reveal the truth to those fence sitters who care about the truth.

It is up to we in the pro-RKBA community to help get the truth out about what this bill does and what it doesn't do.

It has zero effect on Utah's highly successfully, very valuable carry permit. (And one advantage of this bill is the way it all but forces certain gun haters to start singing the praises of our permit. )

Charles

No disagreement with anything you said.

[Karl]

(off topic arrogant legal fecal matter deleted).

There is a different thread for discussing the merits of this bill. This thread it intended to discuss its progress through the legislature and what effect it will have on Utah law if passed. Since this is the Utah legislature acting, they are fully empowered to act even under your anti-RKBA bootlicking view of the world. Since this is Utah, Art 1 Sec 6 of the Utah State constitution has at least as much bearing as the 2nd article of amendment to the US Constitution. Your love affair with Scalia's opinions which had to be crafted to keep Kennedy on board, are entirely irrelevant.

Demonstrate at least the minimal on-line etiquette to keep your crap opinions in the thread where they belong.

I've seen what one arrogant jerk can do to kill off another pro-gun forum. We don't need our own version of solus killing off the Utah forum with similar insufferable sanctimoniousness.

I was forced by logic to take exception to your ludicrous statement at the end. Like I said we have no such rights to concealed carry. Concealed carry is and always has been by state legislative grace.

[bagpiper]

The DesNews has an article about this bill at <http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865671622/Lawmaker-resurrects-push-for-constitutional-carry-bill.html>.

Comments are running against the bill so far. Those who have accounts to post at the DesNews might take a moment to do so.

Charles

[UtahRSO]

This is a wonderful idea, and I hope this bill passes. But I can't see how it could work for some people, me included. Having a permit exempts the holder from the Federal bill 1000 foot school situation. If I read this bill correctly, carrying concealed (or openly as we can do now) without a permit would not exempt us from that problem. From where I live, I can't drive any distance at all without passing a school, or two, or three. So what can be done about that? I know a bunch of other states have constitutional carry. How do they get around this problem? Perhaps I'm incorrect with the idea of 1000 feet. Does the Federal GFSZ apply only to actual school premises, and not for 1000 feet around the school?

[Snurd]

This is a wonderful idea, and I hope this bill passes. But I can't see how it could work for some people, me included. Having a permit exempts the holder from the Federal bill 1000 foot school situation. If I read this bill correctly, carrying concealed (or openly as we can do now) without a permit would not exempt us from that problem. From where I live, I can't drive any distance at all without passing a school, or two, or three. So what can be done about that? I know a bunch of other states have constitutional carry. How do they get around this problem? Perhaps I'm incorrect with the idea of 1000 feet. Does the Federal GFSZ apply only to actual school premises, and not for 1000 feet around the school?

Federal GFSZ is 1000 feet from the grounds of a public, parochial, or private school.

See the top of page 2:
https://www.atf.gov/file/58691/download


Sent from iSnurd

[Karl]

Even if this constitutional state carry bill passes, which I doubt, it would not eliminate the regular CFP provisions and procedure. It might decrease the demand for CFP's, which right now is practically overwhelming for the BCI.

The benefits of the CFP still exceed those of a constitutional state carry law. But they are not mutually exclusive.

[UtahCFP]

I have not heard that BCI is anywhere near being overwhelmed.

Instructors, is there anything to this or is thus just option presented as fact?

[Snurd]

I have not heard that BCI is anywhere near being overwhelmed.

Instructors, is there anything to this or is thus just option presented as fact?

I'm not a CFP instructor, but I believe they are getting permits out within 40 or so days. Definitely not overwhelmed. I remember a number of years ago when they couldn't meet their 60 day deadline and were getting some out around 90ish days. They were slammed then. 40 days is pretty normal.


Sent from iSnurd

[jfwright1955]

I have not heard that BCI is anywhere near being overwhelmed.

Instructors, is there anything to this or is thus just option presented as fact?

I'm not a CFP instructor, but I believe they are getting permits out within 40 or so days. Definitely not overwhelmed. I remember a number of years ago when they couldn't meet their 60 day deadline and were getting some out around 90ish days. They were slammed then. 40 days is pretty normal.
Sent from iSnurd

I think our next door neighbor who attended Dave's CFP class in November received his in a little under 40 days. Not bad considering that spanned the holidays. To celebrate he took ownership of a S&W M&P I sold him.