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Please Assist Me in Settling an Argument

6K views 12 replies 8 participants last post by  JoeSparky 
#1 ·
I was discussing the merits of a CFP with a buddy of mine last night, and he got hung up on the F in CFP.

His stance: seeing as it's a concealed FIREARM permit, and not a concealed HANDGUN permit, one should be able to carry an SBS or SBR if they so choose, given they can find appropriate cover garments.

My stance: Why even try to conceal anything other than a handgun on your person?

Who's right?
 
#2 ·
It's a legal term, and that's it IMO. If someone wants to conceal something other than a handgun, this permission slip from the government allows it. If it is personally not a good idea for you, that doesn't change the legal classification of the permit.

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#5 ·
Concealed Firearm Permit.

Concealed: not easily seen or discernible.
(a) "Concealed firearm" means a firearm that is:​
(i) covered, hidden, or secreted in a manner that the public would not be aware of its presence; and​
(ii) readily accessible for immediate use.​
(b) A firearm that is unloaded and securely encased is not a concealed firearm for the purposes of this part.​

"Securely encased" means not readily accessible for immediate use, such as held in a gun rack, or in a closed case or container, whether or not locked, or in a trunk or other storage area of a motor vehicle, not including a glove box or console box.

Firearm: For purposes of § 922 and § 924 violations 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(3) defines a "firearm" as:
A. any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive;​
B. the frame or receiver of any such weapon;​
C. any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or​
D. any destructive device. Such term does not include an antique firearm.​

Note: modern gun powder rapidly burns, it does not explode. Firearm is usually used for a small gun.

Permit: A written license or warrant, issued by a person in authority, empowering the grantee to do some act not forbidden by law, but not allowable without such authority.

The use of the word weapon is purposely not used in the name of the permit. It is a concealed firearm permit. However, the Utah law does allow a CFP holder to conceal legally authorized dangerous weapons (knife, SAP, etc.).

The term weapon implies intent. Many common items become weapons when their use is intended to do harm.

(a) "Dangerous weapon" means:
(i) a firearm; or
(ii) an object that in the manner of its use or intended use is capable of causing death or serious bodily injury.
(b) The following factors are used in determining whether any object, other than a firearm, is a dangerous weapon:
(i) the location and circumstances in which the object was used or possessed;
(ii) the primary purpose for which the object was made;
(iii) the character of the wound, if any, produced by the object's unlawful use;
(iv) the manner in which the object was unlawfully used;
(v) whether the manner in which the object is used or possessed constitutes a potential imminent threat to public safety; and
(vi) the lawful purposes for which the object may be used.
(c) "Dangerous weapon" does not include an explosive, chemical, or incendiary device as defined by Section 76-10-306.

SBSs and SBRs require permits to own. If you have a permit to possess an SBS or SBR, then Utah law does not prevent you from carrying it concealed or from carrying it openly.

Generally, the longer the barrel and sight radius, the easier it is to accurately aim, fire and control the firearm.
 
#6 ·
The law says a person with a concealed permit, "may conceal," so if they wanted to and owned the item in question legally, then they may conceal if there is a way to do so however, just because a person has a permit does not mean they must conceal. The law also allows carrying a round in the tube, not so if you haven't a permit. IANAL and am about to run to work or could post more regarding this.
 
#7 ·
The authorizing statute mandated this name....
The authorizing statute specifies the details which include much more that simply the ability to conceal a handgun legally!
 
#10 ·
althor said:
You are not allowed to conceal a SBS or SBR with a concealed firearm permit in Utah.

Per 76-10-503(2), it is only 76-10-501(1) and (2) do not apply if you have a permit. 76-10-501(3) indicates that concealing a SBS or SBR is a 2nd degree felony.
Actually, the law says:

Utah Law said:
....snip
(3) A person who carries concealed an unlawfully possessed short barreled shotgun or a short barreled rifle is guilty of a second degree felony.
....snip
So, if you have one that you legally own, i.e. tax stamp, it doesn't say you can't conceal one of those.
 
#11 ·
Snurd said:
althor said:
You are not allowed to conceal a SBS or SBR with a concealed firearm permit in Utah.

Per 76-10-503(2), it is only 76-10-501(1) and (2) do not apply if you have a permit. 76-10-501(3) indicates that concealing a SBS or SBR is a 2nd degree felony.
Actually, the law says:

Utah Law said:
....snip
(3) A person who carries concealed an unlawfully possessed short barreled shotgun or a short barreled rifle is guilty of a second degree felony.
....snip
So, if you have one that you legally own, i.e. tax stamp, it doesn't say you can't conceal one of those.
I knew I should have thought about it a bit longer before hitting send, thought I might have caught it before somebody had a chance to correct me... I guess not. "Unlawfully" was added later. Does anybody know when? Maybe when the laws were changed to allow concealed carry in a vehicle without a permit? Maybe earlier?
 
#12 ·
althor said:
Snurd said:
althor said:
You are not allowed to conceal a SBS or SBR with a concealed firearm permit in Utah.

Per 76-10-503(2), it is only 76-10-501(1) and (2) do not apply if you have a permit. 76-10-501(3) indicates that concealing a SBS or SBR is a 2nd degree felony.
Actually, the law says:

Utah Law said:
....snip
(3) A person who carries concealed an unlawfully possessed short barreled shotgun or a short barreled rifle is guilty of a second degree felony.
....snip
So, if you have one that you legally own, i.e. tax stamp, it doesn't say you can't conceal one of those.
I knew I should have thought about it a bit longer before hitting send, thought I might have caught it before somebody had a chance to correct me... I guess not. "Unlawfully" was added later. Does anybody know when? Maybe when the laws were changed to allow concealed carry in a vehicle without a permit? Maybe earlier?
I'm not sure exactly when it changed. I only noticed the change recently.

Sent from iSnurd
 
#13 ·
Looking at the bill making the most recent change to that specific section shows that any change adding "unlawful" to the statute predated the 2015 legislative session.
 
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