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Legal Penalty for Carrying Concealed at Work

6K views 12 replies 9 participants last post by  gravedancer 
#1 ·
Fellow Patriots!

I apologize if my ineffective searching did not yield discussion already clarifying this and would love to be pointed to this information if already posted.

I work for a large private Utah employer who has posted 'no weapons allowed' at their building entrances. I understand the law allows employers to make such restrictions, and I have no argument against private property rights in general. I understand they could fire me for violating this restriction or at will, and I don't have any argument here either.

As a concealed carry permit holder, I'm concerned about what the potential penalty could be if I were to carry concealed at the workplace anyway. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that within a house of worship (i.e. LDS Church), I could be potentially charged with an infraction with up to a $750 fine. Would it be the same case with an employer or would violating company weapons policy rise to the classification of becoming a misdemeanor, etc.? What are my actual risks here, other than loss of employment?

Thanks in advance to all who discuss and help answer these questions.

FelixFTW
 
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#3 ·
None of the signs posted by businesses or employers carry the weight of law. Which means you'll pay whatever penalty your employer imposes, such as termination, but when you're escorted (or told to leave) out, as long as you do so without delay or causing a scene, there's no legal action they can take.
 
#4 ·
I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice, I don't get fined or go to jail if you act on information I provide that is wrong, YMMV, and so on and so forth.

So far as I can determine, there is no law in Utah criminalizing the violation of a "no gun" policy enacted by a private entity (other than "no gun" policies at a house of worship or private residence, properly noticed).

You can be fired for violating a "no gun" policy at a private employer. (Those employed by the State of Utah or its political sub-divisions are generally protected in their right to bear arms by our State preemption code.) Our State "Parking Lot Preemption" protects most non-religious employees' against negative employment action for keeping a gun in their private car parked in the company parking lot, so long as the gun is out of sight and the car is locked when not occupied. See 34-45-103.

As for legal (ie criminal) risks for carrying into a private employer's workplace in contradiction of their private "no gun" policy, the only risk I can come up with off the top of my head might be a charge of criminal trespass. But I think that is probably a hard one to make stick, especially if you are concealing rather than OCing. Utah's trespass law is found at 76-6-2. There is a fairly high hurdle to get a conviction and unless you made a scene when they told you to leave, it seems low risk to me.

Do be aware of potential federal or tribal laws if your workplace might be subject to those areas of law.

Also, depending on your field of work, getting fired "for cause" may be a bigger deal than just losing your current job. It may affect your ability to get hired at other jobs.

Welcome to UCC.

Charles
 
#5 ·
The risks, assuming you are not employed in a house of worship, are just what you stated.... risk of termination. "No weapons" signs in places of business other than those specifically mentioned in the law do not carry the weight of law, at least in Utah. Your mileage may vary in other states, with the chance of them being legally binding increasing the closer you get to the liberal quarantine zones on each coast of the US.
 
#6 ·
The only real legal action is they don't have to keep you employed should you violate their policies. I would love to carry full time but never got into the habit because my employer doesn't allow it. And I'd rather have a job to put food in my belly and a roof over my head.
 
#9 ·
While carrying at work contrary to employment policies can get you fired, remember that Utah has "Parking Lot Preemption" for most employees. Those who work for a religious employer, and a few whose employers take special pains like providing alternative parking or lock boxes, may not enjoy this protection. State and local government employees technically don't get this protection because they are covered under even better laws. But most private sector employees in Utah are covered.

This law is found at URS 34-45-1xx and prevents most private sector employers from having or enforcing any policy against having a gun (or religious material) inside your private car, even if the car is parked in the company parking lot.

The gun needs to be out of sight, and the car locked when it is not occupied. Obviously, this is not nearly as good as being able to carry on your person during the work day, but for many, makes a very good alternative that doesn't risk loss of job. The gun is still available during the commute, and for any lunchtime or before/after work activities before arriving home.

If a company violates the law regarding Parking Lot Preemption, both the affected employee and the State AG can bring civil causes of action against the company.

Charles
 
#12 ·
Is it your property or their property. If they own the vehicle then their rules apply. If it's your vehicle, even if they are paying for the use, it's still your vehicle.
 
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