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Caliber restrictions for concealed carry?

17K views 40 replies 17 participants last post by  Snurd 
#1 ·
Is anyone aware of any caliber restrictions for concealed carry weapons in Utah? I know some states restrict the caliber to .45.
I am looking at getting a concealed carry for a .50 so I can keep one in the chamber for bear protection in the unlikely event of an attack and bear spray not working.
Any thoughts?
-Tim
 
#5 ·
No restrictions.
Carry what you want.

When the mood strikes me, I (open) carry one of my .44 Mags, or even the .480 Ruger - even around town. :thumbsup:
...Which, come to think about it, happened just last Friday. When I realized that I was the last "responsible" adult in camp (Wasatch County), stuck with a bunch of unarmed women and the kids, I went to the truck to grab something in case a moose or two-legged predator decided to cause a problem*. The first thing I saw was the .480 Ruger, so it spent the rest of the day on my hip as I carefully coaxed the mesquite goodness into a slow-smoked wild hog quarter.

*Bears and Cougars (the feline type) aren't much of a problem in this part of the country. Territorial moose and two-legged predators (humans) are what you should really be watching for...
 
#6 ·
Yeah, overkill. Bear are not a problem here. You do need to be aware when in the back country but no carry permit is required outside of any cities. Step down to something manageable and more appropriate for two legged predators. The four legged ones just aren't worth the extra weight and you don't need a .50 round for a black bear should you decide to spend all your time in the mountains.
 
#7 ·
You would be better off to carry for the 2 legged threat and if your worried about it get something bigger only if you go somewhere you "MIGHT" encounter a bear. Carry the best round you put accurate hits on target with the most effectively. You will be hard pressed to find a bear at all let alone encounter one that did not avoid you all together.
 
#8 ·
DaKnife said:
torichards said:
Is anyone aware of any caliber restrictions for concealed carry weapons in Utah? I know some states restrict the caliber to .45.
I am looking at getting a concealed carry for a .50 so I can keep one in the chamber for bear protection in the unlikely event of an attack and bear spray not working.
Any thoughts?
-Tim
Yeah, overkill. Bear are not a problem here. You do need to be aware when in the back country but no carry permit is required outside of any cities. Step down to something manageable and more appropriate for two legged predators. The four legged ones just aren't worth the extra weight and you don't need a .50 round for a black bear should you decide to spend all your time in the mountains.
What did you mean by 'no carry permit is required outside of any cities.'? While hunting perhaps?
 
#9 ·
Probably means open carry. Concealed carry is still illegal without a permit, except for a few areas listed here:

http://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title76/Chapte ... 1220150512

State Law said:
76-10-504. Carrying concealed firearm -- Penalties.
(1) Except as provided in Section 76-10-503 and in Subsections (2), (3), and (4), a person who carries a concealed firearm, as defined in Section 76-10-501, including an unloaded firearm on his or her person or one that is readily accessible for immediate use which is not securely encased, as defined in this part, in or on a place other than the person's residence, property, a vehicle in the person's lawful possession, or a vehicle, with the consent of the individual who is lawfully in possession of the vehicle, or business under the person's control is guilty of a class B misdemeanor.
(2) A person who carries a concealed firearm that is a loaded firearm in violation of Subsection (1) is guilty of a class A misdemeanor.
(3) A person who carries concealed an unlawfully possessed short barreled shotgun or a short barreled rifle is guilty of a second degree felony.
(4) If the concealed firearm is used in the commission of a violent felony as defined in Section 76-3-203.5, and the person is a party to the offense, the person is guilty of a second degree felony.
(5) Nothing in Subsection (1) or (2) prohibits a person engaged in the lawful taking of protected or unprotected wildlife as defined in Title 23, Wildlife Resources Code of Utah, from carrying a concealed firearm as long as the taking of wildlife does not occur:
(a) within the limits of a municipality in violation of that municipality's ordinances; or
(b) upon the highways of the state as defined in Section 41-6a-102.
 
#10 ·
Snurd is right, I meant OC which was silly since the question was about CC. But who CC's a .50 cal? With a CFP caliber has no restrictions if you can conceal it conceal your 1 gauge shotgun (just make sure the barrel is of legal length).

I would also caution against a .50 cal weapon on other grounds. As already discussed Bears are not an issue in this state. In military parlance .50 cal is considered too big for anti-personnel use and is officially to be used against materiel rather than people. I could see a prosecutor deciding that using a .50 cal round is not valid for defensive purposes and prosecute for use of excessive force, and how far will that round carry if you miss?

Now I can't cite any specific law on this but I would limit my defensive weapon choice to the standard handgun calibers .45 and smaller. Not to mention, CCing a Desert Eagle? How well can you conceal a cannon like that effectively.

I almost think this is a troll question because A: nobody but shepherds cares or worries about bears in Utah(at least not since ol Ephraim), and B: CC with a .50 cal?
 
#11 ·
That's a good point about excessive force, I had wondered about that myself.
I wasn't planning on actually carrying it concealed since I was only going to carry it when in bear country.
I only wanted the conceal permit so that I could keep one in the chamber because every second counts in a bear attack.
I do realize that it is unlikely that I would ever actually have to use it, but I would rather be safe than sorry.
A lot of you have mentioned that bears are not an issue in Utah. Are you referring to just a specific area, or are you familiar with the entire state?
I appreciate all of the responses that you guys have given. Thank you all
 
#12 ·
I can only find 2 instances of bear attacks in Utah. I didn't look extensively, but the info I found is here: Link

The list is long, but you should be able to search for "Utah" and only find two instances of attacks. One in the 1800's, and the other in 2007. There could be more, but I don't have the time now to do a bigger search.

Here is some tips from Utah's Division of Wildlife Resources (DWR) on how to be safe in bear country. Link
 
#13 ·
torichards said:
A lot of you have mentioned that bears are not an issue in Utah. Are you referring to just a specific area, or are you familiar with the entire state?
I appreciate all of the responses that you guys have given. Thank you all
My statement was in reference to the whole state (the region, even, including parts of Colorado, Wyoming, and Idaho).

My 'home range' stretches from Central Wyoming, to Central Utah, to the Sawtooth Mountains in Idaho. The only places I actually worry about bears are in a particular area on the eastern end of the Uintah Mountains (because there are several females with ranges overlapping my camp and at least two always have cubs); the Bridger Wilderness area south of Riverton, Wyoming (their food sources suck, and they're always hungry and irritable); and certain areas around the Idaho/Wyoming border between Bear Lake and Yellowstone NP (wolves kill livestock for fun, and bears scavenge the carcasses - surprising a feeding bear often doesn't end well).

Bears in Utah should still be treated with respect and given their space, but they are not under as much pressure as bears in eastern states, that are forced to live on the fringe of civilization. Bears here still have room to live, room to hide, and room to let you pass by without giving away their position; rather than feeling cornered and threatened when a human walks into 'their' territory.

I saw more bears living in southeastern states than I ever have in Utah. And not a single one was a problem here; whereas the bears in Alabama, North Carolina, and Georgia, in particular, regularly got aggressive just by having someone walk out of the house to see what was rifling through their trash cans - let alone situations like coming across one with a fresh kill.

In Idaho, it's generally moose, wolves, and marijuana farmers that I'm watching for.
In Utah, it's two-legged predators, poachers, and moose.
In Wyoming, it's liquored-up, territorial secessionists that don't like out-of-state license plates; or poachers.

My personal belief is that if you can't defend yourself with a 9mm, you're in the wrong place or chose the wrong ammunition. Bigger is sometimes better. But my big bore handguns are for hunting. The self-defense handguns top out at .45 Auto (or .327 Federal, depending on your point of view).
Feel free to do whatever you feel necessary, but I don't believe a hand cannon is necessary for back country defense in Utah.

Oh, and here's the latest information on bears in Utah, from the Division of Wildlife Resources: 2011 Bear Plan (pdf)
 
#14 ·
Thanks for the reply. I feel much better knowing that bears aren't really a problem. What about panthers?
Many of you have mentioned moose. What is the best non-lethal way to fend off or outright avoid an aggressive moose? What type of handgun would be sufficient for defense of an aggressive moose?
 
#15 ·
torichards said:
Thanks for the reply. I feel much better knowing that bears aren't really a problem. What about panthers?
Many of you have mentioned moose. What is the best non-lethal way to fend off or outright avoid an aggressive moose? What type of handgun would be sufficient for defense of an aggressive moose?
We don't have panthers. Cougars, yes. And the cats too. They don't cause many problems here either. Here is a link from the DWR about how to react. Link

Moose? It's fairly rare to see them, though I did see a mom and her little one up near Park City recently. If you see one, don't get close to it. Some people think it's cool to get close and take pictures. Don't. They will most likely mow you down. I'm not sure about non-lethal stuff. Bear spray may work, but I haven't looked into it.
 
#16 ·
torichards said:
That's a good point about excessive force, I had wondered about that myself.
I wasn't planning on actually carrying it concealed since I was only going to carry it when in bear country.
I only wanted the conceal permit so that I could keep one in the chamber because every second counts in a bear attack.
I do realize that it is unlikely that I would ever actually have to use it, but I would rather be safe than sorry.
A lot of you have mentioned that bears are not an issue in Utah. Are you referring to just a specific area, or are you familiar with the entire state?
I appreciate all of the responses that you guys have given. Thank you all
About the only time you have much chance of encountering a bear is in spring, and then it is mostly going to be the almost 2 year olds, who have been kicked to the curb by mom and are having to fend for themselves for the first time. In those cases, they are only interested in food, and as long as you dont have the scent of food on you or around you, even then you are unlikely to encounter them. I spend a lot of time in the mountains, and ive only had one close encounter with a bear, and that was at my house (cabin at about 8000 ft and on several acres of forest land). Granted, that one encounter was right outside my bedroom window at about 1am, and that bear might have had a close encounter with my AR15, which happened to be more accessible than the bigger guns had he made any real effort to get into my open window. But he was only interested in the BBQ grill, which he demolished in order to lick up what grease he could, and then moved on.
 
#17 · (Edited by Moderator)
torichards said:
Thanks for the reply. I feel much better knowing that bears aren't really a problem. What about panthers?
Many of you have mentioned moose. What is the best non-lethal way to fend off or outright avoid an aggressive moose? What type of handgun would be sufficient for defense of an aggressive moose?
Seeing a Cougar in Utah is much more rare than seeing bears, which is, in my experience, already a fairly rare occurrence. (But I have seen bears at all times of the year - especially late-summer and early-fall, for the record.)

I will admit that I have been stalked by a Cougar, as have two of my brothers, but outside of one incident (on a highway in the middle of the desert, no less), we all figure that the cat was curious and not actually hunting. In one case, it actually turned out that the Cougar was dragging a deer carcass back to its den for its cubs, and we (one of my brothers and I) just happened to be taking a similar route across the terrain (west-central Utah). And those incidents are tiny blips compared to the time we've spent in the mountains.
Even so... 9mm is more than enough for a Cougar. They are very fragile animals, in my opinion (I hunt Cougar and Bobcat here in Idaho).

Avoiding moose is the best option. If you see one, keep your distance and try not to anger it.
If you find yourself facing one that's becoming aggressive, back away while keeping an eye on them, and the other eye out for obstacles to hide behind.
I see moose all the time in the backcountry; but it's usually easy to keep your distance. My personal record for sightings was 29 moose at the same time, with a total of 41 for the day (Weber/Rich counties). None of them were an issue that day.

This was just last week, the night before the aforementioned strapping-on of the .480 Ruger. This young bull moose decided to mosey on past our camp at about 75 yards, just before official sunset. He wasn't being aggressive, and seemed to really only be interested in finding some good forage while working his way down the canyon; but it's worth noting that the closest person to the moose at that point was my son ... and my niece was grabbing his head to make him step back behind the adults.
This is an area that we know to have a notable bear and moose population in the bowl just above camp (to the left in the photo), so we were prepared to see this ... and the three father-figures present all had sidearms.

Moose_800.jpg


To qualify my statements just a bit more, for clarity and perspective, so you don't think that my experiences are like those of every 'outdoorsperson' in the state...
I spend a lot of time in the mountains and deserts of Utah, and spent even more time there when I still lived in Utah (I'm in Idaho now, if you didn't notice).
My hunting/camping truck was bought new in 2004 and has 87,000 miles on it; but over 30% of that mileage has been off road (and much of that in 4-low). So, just backcountry seat time in my truck accounts for 26k-30k miles, or about 2,200-2,400 miles per year. It's a lot of time spent in the back country, and I make an effort to go to places that most other people consider inaccessible or not worth the effort (rough roads, can't get a trailer in, few stock trucks and almost no stock SUVs can make it, too far from highways, too far from a gas station, etc.). And once the truck is parked, I go deep on foot - especially during hunting season.

Point of reference: My preferred elk hunting location in the Uintahs is 13 miles from a maintained road, 27 miles from a paved road, and our camp is usually at the end of a nasty dead-end road, 8 miles from the next closest campsite.

My brothers are even 'worse' than I am. Every chance they get, they're headed to the mountains or desert. And if they have more than a day and a half to spare, they're headed deep into one of "our spots" that are far off the beaten path (generally at least 15 miles from a paved road, often 6+ miles from a maintained dirt road).
Dead of winter, scorching heat of summer, and anything in between, at least one of us is out there ... somewhere.
 

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#18 ·
One more point, if you are only concerned about when in the back country in order to carry condition red (or 1 depending on the system you use), you don't need a CFP to carry with one in the chamber when in the back country. In town and on the road yes, back country the two mechanical action rule doesn't apply. The only ones who would try to apply it would be the DWR if they thought you were hunting (out of season or without a tag during season) but with a handgun that's not going to be an issue. And the DWR agent's aren't all that common on the trail either. (Slightly more frequent sightings than bear, less common than Meese).
 
#19 ·
I've lived in Utah for 63 years and hunted aggressively in my younger days. I've seen bear, exactly twice, both at a distance that made for observation, and not fear. Moose on the other hand can be more problematic. Your greatest danger, and the only time I've ever actually felt fear, is if you happen to be near a mother and her calf. I was fly fishing on the Logan river about two miles upstream from a camp ground, chest deep in fairly swift water. I looked up and saw momma moose crossing the river upstream from me. About 20 yards away. I then heard splashing behind me, and about the same distance down stream, a calf stepped out into the water and started to cross. That is the one and only time I've ever consciously felt fear for my safety because of wildlife. I made like a statue, apparently the wind was with me, and every thing was fine, but that was my one close call. Males in rut may also be an issue, but momma and her baby are nothing to mess with.

Cats? I've seen bob cats on numerous occasions, cougars a couple of times, and lots of tracks and signs that they've been around. In my opinion if the cat is healthy, not starved or injured, they would far rather avoid than attack you. The same is generally true of bears, at least in the back country. Those that have been raiding garbage cans and the like are more used to the smell of humans, and that's one reason that if an attempt to relocate them doesn't work, the DWR will sometimes put one down. So I guess, yes. If you're at an established camp, in bear country, and you see bear signs around your trash, etc., then caution might be in order. But shooting one with a .50 cal is like hunting for squirrels with a 30 06. The point is to neutralize the threat, not see how long it takes to collect enough pieces to see if you can reconstruct something vaguely bear shaped.

Just my usual cynical opinion,

Mel
 
#20 ·
My only Moose encounter was when the mama and baby walked right through our campsite not more than 7-10 yards away with people on both side of them. I was pretty much just waiting to die but they seemed to not care much about any of us and just continued on their way.
 
#21 ·
D-Fin, I don't know the real world truth, having never been there,except for the one time in the river, but what I was always taught is not to get between a mother moose or a mother bear and their offspring. I've had one very close encounter with a bull and two cow moose. Hunting, while walking a back country dirt road, I came around a curve and was almost face to face with the bull. Close enough that I distinctly remember his nostrils flaring and seeing his breath steaming. He was unbelievably beautiful, and it was a post card opportunity. Had I stayed on the road, I'd have been close enough to touch him, or it sure felt like that. Obviously I circled down the mountain and gave them a wide berth, he watched me as I watched him until we were out of sight of each other. But I never felt threatened. He didn't stamp his feet, or act in any way agitated, and I was calm and watchful. All good. I felt absolutely naked when mom and baby put me in a situation where I had absolutely no choice but be in between them. Again, no muss, no fuss, but I made a point of being as non threatening as I could. I think if a mom and her calf walked by me and I could hold still, I'd just drink it in and enjoy the experience. We're talking apples and oranges. They walked through you, you mere humans, and they weren't at all excited about it. Had one of you tried to cut between them, I'm guessing things might have been different.

Mel
 
#22 ·
The places where I see moose most often:
#5 - Wasatch Front foothills (near good water sources).
#4 - Summit County.
#3 - Weber County (primarily higher elevations or the eastern portions of the county).
#2 - Rich County (moist areas, especially with thick Aspen groves).
#1 - Wasatch County (Strawberry Reservoir area, in particular - even right on the main roads). -- I see at least 3-5 moose per trip, sometimes 15-20 per day. Frequent close encounters (less than 25 yards), and we even had two bulls fight their way straight through our campsite, while we were eating dinner(!), a few years ago. They fought just inches from the campfire! We were just four dudes with rifles at the ready, watching our stuff get trampled, while trying to stay out of the way...

And places where they live, but I have never seen one:
The Uintahs (anywhere). I know they're there, and I've even heard them; but I've never seen one.
Tooele County. They're around, but I've never had the pleasure.

Edit:
The craziest thing about the bulls that went right through our camp, was that we heard the sparring. We heard them fighting. But it seemed distant, and we couldn't see them in the trees. Then, suddenly, they were maybe 20 yards from us, and the bigger bull (eventual victor) was just freight-training the little guy, pushing him backward toward our camp with each hit. They didn't give a crap about us. All they cared about was surviving the battle. I wouldn't have wanted to start grunting and mimicking a charging posture, though...
 
#23 ·
quychang said:
D-Fin, I don't know the real world truth, having never been there,except for the one time in the river, but what I was always taught is not to get between a mother moose or a mother bear and their offspring. I've had one very close encounter with a bull and two cow moose. Hunting, while walking a back country dirt road, I came around a curve and was almost face to face with the bull. Close enough that I distinctly remember his nostrils flaring and seeing his breath steaming. He was unbelievably beautiful, and it was a post card opportunity. Had I stayed on the road, I'd have been close enough to touch him, or it sure felt like that. Obviously I circled down the mountain and gave them a wide berth, he watched me as I watched him until we were out of sight of each other. But I never felt threatened. He didn't stamp his feet, or act in any way agitated, and I was calm and watchful. All good. I felt absolutely naked when mom and baby put me in a situation where I had absolutely no choice but be in between them. Again, no muss, no fuss, but I made a point of being as non threatening as I could. I think if a mom and her calf walked by me and I could hold still, I'd just drink it in and enjoy the experience. We're talking apples and oranges. They walked through you, you mere humans, and they weren't at all excited about it. Had one of you tried to cut between them, I'm guessing things might have been different.

Mel
I quite agree and that was what was so terrifying because they were not right next to each other there was some distance between them and we had people all over the campsite. It would not take much for anyone to have been between them. But it turned out to be non issue. It must be a citified moose.
 
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