Active Shooters in California

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Active Shooters in California

Postby brainoncapitalist » Wed 02 Dec 2015 3:35 pm

Police estimate at least 14 dead, more than a dozen wounded in California mass shooting

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/7656 ... ooter.html
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Re: Active Shooters in California

Postby ingfam03 » Wed 02 Dec 2015 6:42 pm

Thoughts and prayers.
Sounds like the shooters were very well armed and prepared.
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Re: Active Shooters in California

Postby J_dazzle23 » Wed 02 Dec 2015 7:49 pm

So sad! One can only wonder how many minutes before we all get blamed for this


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Re: Active Shooters in California

Postby morcey2 » Thu 03 Dec 2015 8:13 am

J_dazzle23 wrote:So sad! One can only wonder how many minutes before we all get blamed for this


36 minutes. (or 96 if the time zone is wrong, but I don't think it is.)

At 11:36 AM pacific, Martin O'Malley tweeted:
Horrifying news out of #SanBernardino. Enough is enough: it's time to stand up to the @NRA and enact meaningful gun safety laws
2:36 PM - 2 Dec 2015


Link: https://twitter.com/MartinOMalley/statu ... _src=twsrc^tfw

From what I've seen, the police hadn't even made it into the building at that point. And I'm praying for the victims and their families, just to piss off the left. Many are attacking GOP candidates and others for their "thoughts and prayers", but the same scumbags on the left were sending their "thoughts and prayers" after both Paris and Colorado Springs.

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Re: Active Shooters in California

Postby bagpiper » Thu 03 Dec 2015 1:18 pm

A husband and wife who both belong to the great religion of peace. The media is having a hard time figuring out whether this is actually terrorism or just workplace violence.

I think the media and Democrats may have miscalculated on the strategy of playing up every mass shooting in hopes of turning the public against lawful gun ownership. Whether the criminal is a lone nut case who had no business walking the streets, or Islamic terrorists, a growing number of folks seem to be realizing that you can't disarm criminals nearly as reliably as you can respect the rights of law abiding citizens to effectively defend themselves.

Not that I actually trust him, but Donald Trump's bombastic messages on this topic have helped in this regard as he pointed out that the French are disarmed. I do hope Cruz can overtake him and win the nomination. But there is something to be said for speaking the truth in ways that the media can't or won't ignore.

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Re: Active Shooters in California

Postby dewittdj » Thu 03 Dec 2015 3:59 pm

France has some of the toughest gun control laws in the EU. The laws didn't, nor will they ever, prevent the violence that dedicated and deliberate individuals want to commit.

California has some of the strictest gun control laws in the nation. The laws didn't, nor will they ever, prevent the violence that dedicated and deliberate individuals want to commit.

Most of the Dems and Leftists are calling for more gun control. More laws won't prevent the violence that future dedicated and deliberate individuals want to commit.

The number of laws or absence thereof don't prevent violent crimes from occurring and yet the left continues to pound the drum for more and stricter gun laws.

Image if 10% of the people in that conference room were armed. I sure the outcome would have been very different and would bet that the number of dead would have been substantially less.

California, is, for the most part, one big soft target waiting for more of these horrific acts to occur.
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Re: Active Shooters in California

Postby Doctor Jenks » Thu 03 Dec 2015 4:31 pm

bagpiper wrote:A husband and wife who both belong to the great religion of peace. The media is having a hard time figuring out whether this is actually terrorism or just workplace violence.

I think the media and Democrats may have miscalculated on the strategy of playing up every mass shooting in hopes of turning the public against lawful gun ownership. Whether the criminal is a lone nut case who had no business walking the streets, or Islamic terrorists, a growing number of folks seem to be realizing that you can't disarm criminals nearly as reliably as you can respect the rights of law abiding citizens to effectively defend themselves.

Not that I actually trust him, but Donald Trump's bombastic messages on this topic have helped in this regard as he pointed out that the French are disarmed. I do hope Cruz can overtake him and win the nomination. But there is something to be said for speaking the truth in ways that the media can't or won't ignore.

Charles

I totally agree. The media seems to be tripping over themselves to find some explanation besides terrorism for this attack. Let's be honest, what are the chances that two Muslims using rifles, and sophisticated IEDs to murder innocents will turn out to be something other than terrorists?

if this turns out to be "just" workplace violence as has been suggested, do you think Muslims around the world will feel vindicated by the fact that these were just an ordinary variety of murdering scumbags? Surely, this would prove that Islamic terrorism doesn't exist.
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Re: Active Shooters in California

Postby dewittdj » Thu 03 Dec 2015 8:35 pm

...or as Obummer as said, "ISIS" [ISIL as the left calls them] has been contained and the global war on terror is winding down as isolated pockets of extremist are located and dealt with."
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Re: Active Shooters in California

Postby sypher » Thu 03 Dec 2015 9:54 pm

Question for everyone, what would you do in this situation? It's easy to "armchair quarterback" when you're not involved. I would love to have a serious discussion, as every time there has been a shooting, I try to put myself in the situation and decide what I would do. How would you deal with trying not to become a victim of someone else who is trying to help out? How would you deal with cops coming on scene ready for a fight and seeing you with a drawn firearm?
If this needs to be moved to its own thread, I'm ok with that, I just figured with some of the comments that this was an appropriate place to ask and have this discussion.
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Re: Active Shooters in California

Postby UtahCFP » Thu 03 Dec 2015 10:28 pm

sypher wrote:Question for everyone, what would you do in this situation? It's easy to "armchair quarterback" when you're not involved. I would love to have a serious discussion, as every time there has been a shooting, I try to put myself in the situation and decide what I would do. How would you deal with trying not to become a victim of someone else who is trying to help out? How would you deal with cops coming on scene ready for a fight and seeing you with a drawn firearm?
If this needs to be moved to its own thread, I'm ok with that, I just figured with some of the comments that this was an appropriate place to ask and have this discussion.


This is kind of like asking "what would you do in a car wreck?" There are a thousand variations of what happens in a car wreck, with several thousand possible results. Boiling it waaaay down leaves you with "try and avoid harm, decide if you can/should help others, try to keep your mind working".

Training can help you with mechanics of things like automatically seeking cover / moving / scanning -- but you still have to a) come to grips that what is happening is really happening, and b) react / make decisions. OODA Loop could help here.

If you would REALLY like to get a sense of how you operate under stress, do one of the live-fire simulator sorts of training. I've not done this, but those I've talked with who have say it is unlike any other sorts of training.

I have been in a car accident when I hit black ice going down a hill and went off the road. What went through my mind and the reactions I had weren't what I would have predicted. I do remember thinking "these are the last moments when this car is undamaged" --- ;)

I think your approach is quite good -- for a given incident, think through "what might I have done?" Makes you better prepared should you meet a similar situation. I used to tell students in my CFP courses to do exactly that.
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Re: Active Shooters in California

Postby sypher » Thu 03 Dec 2015 10:56 pm

UtahCFP wrote:This is kind of like asking "what would you do in a car wreck?" There are a thousand variations of what happens in a car wreck, with several thousand possible results. Boiling it waaaay down leaves you with "try and avoid harm, decide if you can/should help others, try to keep your mind working".


I agree. But thinking about it has raised questions that I don't have answers to, and I don't think some of them could be answered until you are in that situation.
Again, some questions that I have I think can be discussed in broad terms. Such as, what can you do to prevent, lessen the likelihood, of being shot by other do gooders trying to help like you are? How do you keep from being shot by police as they arrive? I don't expect there to be a definitive answer, more just to generate thoughts and ideas, so that if I find myself in a situation, I want to improve my chances of making it through with the least harm done to me, while being able to help others. I'm sure others may have similar questions, but never asked, and this would be a good time to discuss these things while it's fresh on our minds, and before it may happen to us.
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Re: Active Shooters in California

Postby Doctor Jenks » Fri 04 Dec 2015 6:05 am

As UtahCFP pointed out, it's impossible to know how a situation like this will play out. The answer to your question will depend on exactly what scenario you are in when police arrive, or when you encounter other friendlies. I'm not an expert, but I've thought about the situation as well.

Ask yourself this, if you were in that scenario and saw another person carrying a firearm, how would you react? Would you shoot them immediately? How would you know for certain they weren't friendly? You're going to have to use your intellect and instincts to determine if they're a threat. What if you've been hearing automatic fire, and the person you see is carrying a Ruger lcp? Maybe they're leading a group of unarmed people around a corner. Perhaps it's a person (not police) wearing a tactical vest, and body armor walking around shooting people? :mrgreen: The possibilities are endless. Likewise, you'll have to hope a friendly who sees you will have the presence of mind to do the same. I think your best chance lies in:
a) Situational awareness. Seeing them before they see you. Also, other fundamentals. Taking cover, etc.
b) Communication. "I'm friendly, don't shoot!"
c) A healthy dose of luck.

If the police are coming into the building, get down and out of the way. Let them do their job.
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