Laws on Knives in Utah ???

This is an area to discuss general issues regarding knives, swords, and other non-firearm weapons.

Postby UTOC-45-44 » Thu 18 Oct 2007 8:58 am

"We CFP-holders are exempt from that section and so are perfectly legal to carry non-firearm dangerous weapons concealed (assuming that they are not items that are separately banned, like sawed-off shotguns are). "

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Utah Code Section 76-10-505.576-10-505.5. Possession of a dangerous weapon, firearm, or sawed-off shotgun on or about school premises -- Penalties. ...
www.le.state.ut.us/~code/TITLE76/htm/76_0C035.htm - 4k - Cached - Similar pages


76-10-505.5. Possession of a dangerous weapon, firearm, or sawed-off shotgun on or about school premises -- Penalties.
(1) A person may not possess any dangerous weapon, firearm, or sawed-off shotgun, as those terms are defined in Section 76-10-501, at a place that the person knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is on or about school premises as defined in Subsection 76-3-203.2(1).
(2) (a) Possession of a dangerous weapon on or about school premises is a class B misdemeanor.
(b) Possession of a firearm or sawed-off shotgun on or about school premises is a class A misdemeanor.
(3) This section does not apply if:
(a) the person is authorized to possess a firearm as provided under Section 53-5-704, 53-5-705, 76-10-511, or 76-10-523, or as otherwise authorized by law;
(b) the possession is approved by the responsible school administrator;
(c) the item is present or to be used in connection with a lawful, approved activity and is in the possession or under the control of the person responsible for its possession or use; or
(d) the possession is:
(i) at the person's place of residence or on the person's property;
(ii) in any vehicle lawfully under the person's control, other than a vehicle owned by the school or used by the school to transport students; or
(iii) at the person's place of business which is not located in the areas described in Subsection 76-3-203.2(1)(a)(i), (ii), or (iv).
(4) This section does not prohibit prosecution of a more serious weapons offense that may occur on or about school premises.

Amended by Chapter 203, 2003 General Session
Download Code Section Zipped WP 6/7/8 76_0C035.ZIP 2,551 Bytes




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Last revised: Thursday, July 19, 2007 (2) (a) Possession of a dangerous weapon on or about school premises is a class B misdemeanor.
(b) Possession of a firearm or sawed-off shotgun on or about school premises is a class A misdemeanor.
(3) This section does not apply if:
(a) the person is authorized to possess a firearm as provided under Section 53-5-704, 53-5-705, 76-10-511, or 76-10-523, or as otherwise authorized by law;
(b) the possession is approved by the responsible school administrator;
(c) the item is present or to be used in connection with a lawful, approved activity and is in the possession or under the control of the person responsible for its possession or use; or
(d) the possession is:
(i) at the person's place of residence or on the person's property;
(ii) in any vehicle lawfully under the person's control, other than a vehicle owned by the school or used by the school to transport students; or
(iii) at the person's place of business which is not located in the areas described in Subsection 76-3-203.2(1)(a)(i), (ii), or (iv).
(4) This section does not prohibit prosecution of a more serious weapons offense that may occur on or about school premises.

Amended by Chapter 203, 2003 General Session
Download Code Section Zipped WP 6/7/8 76_0C035.ZIP 2,551 Bytes




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Last revised: Thursday, July 19, 2007

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I refer to the lines that I will extract as to the legality that as a Permit holder we can even carry a sawed-off Shotgun or Rifle both on or of School grounds.


"(1) A person may not possess any dangerous weapon, firearm, or sawed-off shotgun, as those terms are defined in Section 76-10-501, at a place that the person knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is on or about school premises as defined in Subsection 76-3-203.2(1)"....

..."3) This section does not apply if:
(a) the person is authorized to possess a firearm as provided under Section 53-5-704, 53-5-705, 76-10-511, or 76-10-523, or as otherwise authorized by law;"...

As a CFP holder we are "as otherwise authorized by law" since BCI is the the Law.

Carry on and I will this weekend look for a Knife to carry as well. Probably 4 inch Blade.
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Postby Ishpeck » Thu 18 Oct 2007 10:53 am

Hunter wrote:Again it cames back to to what and how you are carrying, and the practical or stated purpose for the item you are carrying in the given circumstances surrounding the incident you are involved in.

Hope this makes sense and answers more questions than it casues.


It really doesn't. There's so much subjectivity here, it's scary.
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Postby Jeff Johnson » Thu 18 Oct 2007 5:31 pm

UTOC-45-44 wrote:...
As a CFP holder we are "as otherwise authorized by law" since BCI is the the Law.
...
Ah, but Utah code isn't the only code that regulates firearms.

A shotgun with a barrel length of less than 18 inches is illegal under Federal law, and possession of such is a felony. That was the excuse the Feds used for surrounding Randy Weaver and his family in his remote cabin at Ruby Ridge, Idaho, during which an FBI sniper killed Randy's wife, Vicki Weaver while she was holding their baby. This was a dark day in U.S. history.

See the following:

26 U.S.C. Chapter 53, § 5845. Definitions
...
For the purpose of this chapter—
(a) Firearm
The term “firearm” means
(1) a shotgun having a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length;
...
18 U.S.C. §922. Unlawful acts
(a) It shall be unlawful-
...
(4) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, to transport in interstate or foreign commerce any destructive device, machinegun (as defined in section 5845 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986), short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle, except as specifically authorized by the Attorney General consistent with public safety and necessity;
...


I'm not an attorney, and don't know if I'm quoting the most pertinent sections of Federal code. However, don't become a felon by believing that a Utah CFP makes it legal for you to carry a sawed-off shotgun. It doesn't.
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Postby bane » Fri 19 Oct 2007 6:13 am

Jeff Johnson wrote:That was the excuse the Feds used for surrounding Randy Weaver and his family in his remote cabin at Ruby Ridge, Idaho, during which an FBI sniper killed Randy's wife, Vicki Weaver while she was holding their baby. This was a dark day in U.S. history.



I remember that day too... my family spent a lot of time in front of the TV watching that whole thing develop... there's an argument to be made for situations like Waco but the one in ID was a total immorality... truly sad...
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Postby Jeff Johnson » Fri 19 Oct 2007 9:22 am

I've been looking at this further, and here's more regarding sawed-off shotguns:

As I stated earlier in this thread:
...
A concealed firearm permit only exempts you from Subsection 76-10-504(1)(a),1(b), Utah code Annotated, "Carrying Concealed Firearms". Section 76-10-505, Utah code Annotated, carrying a loaded firearm in a vehicle or on the street" and section 76-10-505.5, Utah code Annotated, possession of a dangerous weapon on or about school premises."
...

Now examine the following code:
U.C.A. 76-10-523. Persons exempt from weapons laws.
(1) This part and Title 53, Chapter 5, Part 7, Concealed Weapon Act, do not apply to any of the following:
...
(2) The provisions of Subsections 76-10-504(1)(a), (1)(b), and Section 76-10-505 do not apply to any person to whom a permit to carry a concealed firearm has been issued:
(emphasis added)

Notice that in U.C.A 76-10-523, we are only exempt from 76-10-504(1)(a), (1)(b), which does not include 76-10-504(2):
76-10-504(2)
(2) A person who carries concealed a sawed-off shotgun or a sawed-off rifle is guilty of a second degree felony.

If you carry or possess a sawed-off shotgun, you are committing a 2nd degree felony by Utah statutes. You're in trouble from both the state and the Feds.

Be safe and legal out there.
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Postby Car Knocker » Fri 19 Oct 2007 11:44 am

You're in trouble from both the state and the Feds.

Unless, of course, one has jumped through the federal hoops and has the tax stamp to possess a short-barreled shotgun.
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Postby Hunter » Mon 29 Oct 2007 8:23 am

Ishpeck wrote:
Hunter wrote:Again it cames back to to what and how you are carrying, and the practical or stated purpose for the item you are carrying in the given circumstances surrounding the incident you are involved in.

Hope this makes sense and answers more questions than it casues.


It really doesn't. There's so much subjectivity here, it's scary.


You're right, sometimes it can be scary. As you look through some state codes, city ordinances, and case law you will find a lot things depends on "the totallity of the circumstance", in a given incident, to determine if a law was broken or what degree of punishment will be given.
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Postby Eukatae » Thu 08 Nov 2007 11:22 am

I guess this means one could carry automatic knives legally?
If memory serves automatics can be owned and carried if not concealed.
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Postby Tarzan1888 » Thu 08 Nov 2007 11:28 am

Eukatae wrote:I guess this means one could carry automatic knives legally?
If memory serves automatics can be owned and carried if not concealed.


If you mean "Switch Blade" or "Stellito", then I think NOT.

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Postby althor » Thu 08 Nov 2007 5:07 pm

Jeff Johnson wrote:<snip>

Notice that in U.C.A 76-10-523, we are only exempt from 76-10-504(1)(a), (1)(b), which does not include 76-10-504(2):
76-10-504(2)
(2) A person who carries concealed a sawed-off shotgun or a sawed-off rifle is guilty of a second degree felony.

If you carry or possess a sawed-off shotgun, you are committing a 2nd degree felony by Utah statutes. You're in trouble from both the state and the Feds.

Be safe and legal out there.


I just ran across the previous post and wanted to add something.

You may carry and posses a sawed-off shotgun with the proper tax paid transfer ($5.00), what 76-10-504(2) says is that you may not conceal it.
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Postby Jeff Johnson » Thu 08 Nov 2007 8:53 pm

althor wrote:...
I just ran across the previous post and wanted to add something.

You may carry and posses a sawed-off shotgun with the proper tax paid transfer ($5.00), what 76-10-504(2) says is that you may not conceal it.


Are you talking about the federal tax stamp (from the NFA of 1934) that you must pay in order to own a Class III weapon? That's $200, not $5.

Merely possessing a sawed-off shotgun is still illegal unless you pay for the tax stamp and get a Class III license.
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Postby althor » Fri 09 Nov 2007 12:54 am

Jeff Johnson wrote:
althor wrote:...
I just ran across the previous post and wanted to add something.

You may carry and possess a sawed-off shotgun with the proper tax paid transfer ($5.00), what 76-10-504(2) says is that you may not conceal it.


Are you talking about the federal tax stamp (from the NFA of 1934) that you must pay in order to own a Class III weapon? That's $200, not $5.

Merely possessing a sawed-off shotgun is still illegal unless you pay for the tax stamp and get a Class III license.


A $200 tax stamp is required for all NFA items except those classified as AOW (Any Other Weapon). These include things like short barrel shotguns (sawed-off), pen guns, cane guns and other 'gadget guns' that don't really resemble normal guns, smooth bore pistols, any pistol with more than one grip, etc... AOWs only require a $5.00 tax stamp.

Also, after paying the tax and getting the approved and stamped form what you basically have is a tax document, not a license or a permit. No permit is required in Utah, just the stamp.
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Postby UTOC-45-44 » Wed 20 Feb 2008 11:39 pm

Hunter wrote:
apollosmith wrote:
Hunter wrote:It comes back to the the part of 76-1-601 which defines a "Dangerous Weapon" (5) "Dangerous weapon" means:
(a) any item capable of causing death or serious bodily injury; or
(b) a facsimile or representation of the item; and:
(i) the actor's use or apparent intended use of the item leads the victim to reasonably believe the item is likely to cause death or serious bodily injury;

Hope this makes sense and answers more questions than it casues.


That does clarify a bit. The thing is, there is no place in Utah law that says you can't carry a dangerous weapon that is NOT concealed. In other words, I can legally carry a sword around town or a 14" hunting knife or an unloaded pistol or nunchuks, etc. without any legal ramifications. Now if I conceal this weapon or carry it in schools or use it to threaten someone, etc., I'm breaking the law. But there's no place that says I can't carry it in public in a non-concealed way. Or at least I haven't found anything stating this.


Depending on the circumstances involved, you may not be arrested for a Weapons Violation, but you could still be arrested for Disorderly Conduct.

76-9-102. Disorderly conduct.
(1) A person is guilty of disorderly conduct if:
(a) he refuses to comply with the lawful order of the police to move from a public place, or knowingly creates a hazardous or physically offensive condition, by any act which serves no legitimate purpose; or
(b) intending to cause public inconvenience, annoyance, or alarm, or recklessly creating a risk thereof, he:
(i) engages in fighting or in violent, tumultuous, or threatening behavior;
(ii) makes unreasonable noises in a public place;
(iii) makes unreasonable noises in a private place which can be heard in a public place; or
(iv) obstructs vehicular or pedestrian traffic.
(2) "Public place," for the purpose of this section, means any place to which the public or a substantial group of the public has access and includes but is not limited to streets, highways, and the common areas of schools, hospitals, apartment houses, office buildings, transport facilities, and shops.
(3) Disorderly conduct is a class C misdemeanor if the offense continues after a request by a person to desist. Otherwise it is an infraction.


WRONG.

When there is NO law AGAINST it the above code is not valid. DISORDERLY CONDUCT is the Behavior and NOT the fact that you carry a Weapon LAWFULLY.

CONDUCT yourself while carrying a Weapon and you will NOT have a problem
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Postby Ty » Fri 22 Feb 2008 4:39 am

Tarzan1888 wrote:
Eukatae wrote:I guess this means one could carry automatic knives legally?
If memory serves automatics can be owned and carried if not concealed.


If you mean "Switch Blade" or "Stellito", then I think NOT.

Tarzan


According to my CCW class instructor atomatic knifes are legal to be carried while being concealed and sold in Utah. He had quite a few of them to show the class and so did a few people at the range. I'll dig through the handouts I got and find the laws he quoted.
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Postby Eukatae » Sat 23 Feb 2008 8:54 am

Ty wrote:
Tarzan1888 wrote:
Eukatae wrote:I guess this means one could carry automatic knives legally?
If memory serves automatics can be owned and carried if not concealed.


If you mean "Switch Blade" or "Stellito", then I think NOT.

Tarzan


According to my CCW class instructor atomatic knifes are legal to be carried while being concealed and sold in Utah. He had quite a few of them to show the class and so did a few people at the range. I'll dig through the handouts I got and find the laws he quoted.


That would be greatly appreciated. I thought that was the case but I was so readily shot down when I posed the question I assumed it had already been well covered in another venue by the shooter.
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