Laws on Knives in Utah ???

This is an area to discuss general issues regarding knives, swords, and other non-firearm weapons.

Re: Laws on Knives in Utah ???

Postby Car Knocker » Tue 20 Dec 2011 6:28 pm

The highlighted portion of the law quoted immediately below specifies exactly what laws the CFP exempts the holder from observing:
53-5-704. Bureau duties -- Permit to carry concealed firearm -- Certification for concealed firearms instructor -- Requirements for issuance -- Violation -- Denial, suspension, or revocation -- Appeal procedure.
(1) (a) The bureau shall issue a permit to carry a concealed firearm for lawful self defense to an applicant who is 21 years of age or older within 60 days after receiving an application, unless the bureau finds proof that the applicant does not meet the qualifications set forth in Subsection (2).
(b) The permit is valid throughout the state for five years, without restriction, except as otherwise provided by Section 53-5-710.
(c) The provisions of Subsections 76-10-504(1) and (2), and Section 76-10-505 do not apply to a person issued a permit under Subsection (1)(a).
....


The following law, mentioned in the quote above that CFP holders are exempt from observing, specifies a "concealed dangerous weapon".
76-10-504. Carrying concealed dangerous weapon -- Penalties.
(1) Except as provided in Section 76-10-503 and in Subsections (2), (3), and (4), a person who carries a concealed dangerous weapon, as defined in Section 76-10-501, including an unloaded firearm on his or her person or one that is readily accessible for immediate use which is not securely encased, as defined in this part, in or on a place other than the person's residence, property, a vehicle in the person's lawful possession, or a vehicle, with the consent of the individual who is lawfully in possession of the vehicle, or business under the person's control is guilty of a class B misdemeanor.

(2) A person who carries a concealed dangerous weapon which is a loaded firearm in violation of Subsection (1) is guilty of a class A misdemeanor.



Characteristics of "dangerous weapons" and "concealed dangerous weapons" are listed below:
76-10-501. Definitions.
(3) (a) "Concealed dangerous weapon" means a dangerous weapon that is:
(i) covered, hidden, or secreted in a manner that the public would not be aware of its presence; and
(ii) readily accessible for immediate use.

(6) (a) "Dangerous weapon" means an item that in the manner of its use or intended use is capable of causing death or serious bodily injury.
(b) The following factors shall be used in determining whether a knife, or another item, object, or thing not commonly known as a dangerous weapon is a dangerous weapon:
(i) the character of the instrument, object, or thing;
(ii) the character of the wound produced, if any;
(iii) the manner in which the instrument, object, or thing was used; and
(iv) the other lawful purposes for which the instrument, object, or thing may be used.



Clearly, an auto knife, among other tools, fits the bill as a dangerous weapon, concealed or not, that a CFP holder is allowed to carry because the CFP holder is exempt from those portions of the above laws that prohibit possession/carry of those dangerous items, just as 76-10-505 exempts the CFP holder from the prohibition against carrying a loaded firearm.

Since most of Utah's laws are prohibitive rather than permissive, anything that is not specifically prohibited is allowed.
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Re: Laws on Knives in Utah ???

Postby My Trigger Guard » Wed 01 Feb 2012 12:10 pm

Sorry to ressurect a older thread but I wanted to bump this.

FYI I was at sportsmans the other day and I really do love there auto knifes very expensive but they will not sell them to you unless you have a military ID or are in LE. Which seems silly to me expecially after reading how that other store in utah will.

That and someone mentioned posting a new thread that cuts through the BS and gives you the skinny on the law about auto and none auto knives in one clear cut post. Perhaps even a sticky would be good since we have a knives forum in a UCC enviroment.

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Re: Laws on Knives in Utah ???

Postby Jesse 8 » Wed 01 Feb 2012 2:30 pm

Yeah, I was in there the other day and thought 'how stupid is it that I can buy and conceal a firearm almost anywhere in the state, but I can't buy a knife that has an auto open feature :disgusted:
Last edited by Jesse 8 on Wed 01 Feb 2012 3:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Laws on Knives in Utah ???

Postby Snowman » Wed 01 Feb 2012 3:02 pm

Some of the smaller knife shops will sell them. There's one in Ogden that will, but not to just anybody, he has to get to know you first... :roll:

Isn't there a member here that sells knives? Can he get them ordered in?
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Re: Laws on Knives in Utah ???

Postby Cinhil » Wed 01 Feb 2012 3:41 pm

That's funny, you can find lots of them during the gun shows so long as you find the right dealer. I don't carry any but I knw there are dealers there who do. You may want to check and see if Joe's Knives and Swords has any. I think this is his contact info;
4152 Carriage Sq
Salt Lake City, UT 84119
(801) 982-0553
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Re: Laws on Knives in Utah ???

Postby divegeek » Wed 01 Feb 2012 4:49 pm

Jesse 8 wrote:Yeah, I was in there the other day and thought 'how stupid is it that I can buy and conceal a firearm almost anywhere in the state, but I can't buy a knife that has an auto open feature :disgusted:

And that you actually can buy a knife with an auto open feature, just not at Sportsman's.
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Re: Laws on Knives in Utah ???

Postby ckamanao » Sat 09 Jun 2012 6:16 pm

I work in a gun shop and call BCI just about every day. Today I asked what a CFP covers. They told me: CFP- Concealed Firearms Permit. Not a Concealed Weapons Permit. And that it does not cover knives, swords, rifles, SBRs, shotguns-sawed off or otherwise.

Strange.
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Re: Laws on Knives in Utah ???

Postby Kevin Jensen » Sun 10 Jun 2012 11:20 am

ckamanao wrote:I work in a gun shop and call BCI just about every day. Today I asked what a CFP covers. They told me: CFP- Concealed Firearms Permit. Not a Concealed Weapons Permit. And that it does not cover knives, swords, rifles, SBRs, shotguns-sawed off or otherwise.

Strange.


Yeah, strange indeed. Even more strange is that the person at the BCI must know more than the Legislature, who wrote the laws that this person should know.

Let's see what the Legislature said...

76-10-504. Carrying concealed dangerous weapon -- Penalties.
(1) Except as provided in Section 76-10-503 and in Subsections (2), (3), and (4), a person who carries a concealed dangerous weapon, as defined in Section 76-10-501, including an unloaded firearm on his or her person or one that is readily accessible for immediate use which is not securely encased, as defined in this part, in or on a place other than the person's residence, property, a vehicle in the person's lawful possession, or a vehicle, with the consent of the individual who is lawfully in possession of the vehicle, or business under the person's control is guilty of a class B misdemeanor.
(2) A person who carries a concealed dangerous weapon which is a loaded firearm in violation of Subsection (1) is guilty of a class A misdemeanor.
(3) A person who carries concealed an unlawfully possessed (read: no tax stamp) short barrel shotgun or a short barrel rifle is guilty of a second degree felony.


That's strange, the Legislature kept putting the words "dangerous weapon" in the "thou shall not conceal" law. So what is a "dangerous weapon"?

76-10-501. Definitions.
As used in this part:
...
(6) (a) "Dangerous weapon" means an item that in the manner of its use or intended use is capable of causing death or serious bodily injury.
(b) The following factors shall be used in determining whether a knife, or another item, object, or thing not commonly known as a dangerous weapon is a dangerous weapon:
(i) the character of the instrument, object, or thing;
(ii) the character of the wound produced, if any;
(iii) the manner in which the instrument, object, or thing was used; and
(iv) the other lawful purposes for which the instrument, object, or thing may be used.
(c) "Dangerous weapon" does not include an explosive, chemical, or incendiary device as defined by Section 76-10-306.


Strange again, knives seem to be the first item mentioned in the definition of "dangerous weapons". But a "Concealed Firearm Permit" must certainly not exempt us from carrying concealed dangerous weapons, since the card doesn't read "Concealed dangerous weapon / knife permit".

76-10-523. Persons exempt from weapons laws. (There's that strange word again)
...
(2) The provisions of Subsections 76-10-504(1) and (2), and Section 76-10-505 do not apply to any person to whom a permit to carry a concealed firearm has been issued:
(a) pursuant to Section 53-5-704; or
(b) by another state or county.


Man, this is strange. :wink:
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Re: Laws on Knives in Utah ???

Postby faydee » Sun 10 Jun 2012 3:40 pm

Kevin i love you ;)
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Re: Laws on Knives in Utah ???

Postby Kevin Jensen » Sun 10 Jun 2012 3:43 pm

faydee wrote:Kevin i love you ;)

:love: :heartbeat:
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Re: Laws on Knives in Utah ???

Postby jktseug » Sun 10 Jun 2012 4:38 pm

This is actually common. In my CFP class, the instructor was from BCI and indicated that it is a Concealed Firearm Permit and it doesn't cover knives. But the laws on the books seem to indicate otherwise.
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Re: Laws on Knives in Utah ???

Postby gobbly » Sun 10 Jun 2012 7:10 pm

yeah, not all that uncommon. There are plenty of examples of bci, cfp instructors, and police, who don't understand the law. It's not a bad idea to print out the relevant laws and keep a copy in your wallet with your cfp :)
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Re: Laws on Knives in Utah ???

Postby Cinhil » Sun 10 Jun 2012 8:30 pm

Thanks Kevin for posting the relevant laws. I would have done so but it was already very late for me to be getting to bed and I didn't have time the other day. What you've posted is appropriate and is the law regardless what someone from BCI seems to "think" the law is. Thanks!
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Re: Laws on Knives in Utah ???

Postby JoeSparky » Sun 10 Jun 2012 9:17 pm

Not sure if it has been mentioned or not in this thread but last year or the year before the State legislature claimed all power on regulation of knife law state-wide.... A good move on in my opinion!
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Re: Laws on Knives in Utah ???

Postby Hawk87 » Sun 10 Jun 2012 9:20 pm

JoeSparky wrote:Not sure if it has been mentioned or not in this thread but last year or the year before the State legislature claimed all power on regulation of knife law state-wide.... A good move on in my opinion!


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