Utah knife laws

[shoot]

During a verbal conversation with other UCCers there was some confusion as to Utah knife laws (and by extension, other non-firearm weapons). So I wanted to gather what I could find, and ask if my understanding is correct. Also, I noticed that there were relevant changes to the Utah code in 2009, so some of the older posts in UCC on the subject may no longer be applicable.

First, 76-10-501 defines "Dangerous weapon." It appears there is no explicit list of what type of knife (for example, whether it is a folder, automatic, double-edged, dagger, etc.) or length makes it a dangerous weapon. For simplicity for this post and to err on the side of caution, I will assume that a carried knife will be deemed a "dangerous weapon." I also could not find any outright prohibitions on non-firearm weapons elsewhere.

Section 76-10-504, "Carrying concealed dangerous weapon," lists penalties for "a person who carries a concealed dangerous weapon." It appears that carrying non-concealed is fine, whereas carrying concealed is limited. Subsequently, 76-10-523 (2) indicates that the above subsection does "not apply to any person to whom a permit to carry a concealed firearm has been issued." This section, and the next (schools) are the same as for firearms.

Section 76-10-505.5 also prohibits dangerous weapons on or about school premises. There is an exemption for CFP holders, but it seems that the exemption only applies if all of (3)(a), (3)(b), and (3)(c) are met. Is this correct? (H.B.75 makes some changes, but not to this particular language.)

I did notice that in section 76-10-530, "Trespass with a firearm in a house of worship or private residence," reference is made to firearms, but not to "dangerous weapons." So it appears knifes are not restricted in this case, unlike the secure areas restriction (76-10-529), which applies to any dangerous weapon, whether firearm or not.

So I believe CFP holders can carry any knife or non-firearm weapon concealed where firearms are allowed (and houses of worship and residences). Is this correct?

And non-CFP holders can carry non-concealed. Definitely not in schools, but as I asked, I don't think a CFP automatically allows you to carry in schools either.

Any case law we should be aware of?

Notes:

• Federal law prohibits switchblades on federal land http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/15/us ... -000-.html.
• I've also ommited restrictions for prohibited persons, minors, while commiting crimes, under the influence, threatening, etc.
• H.B.271 (2011) preempts municipal laws regarding knifes.

[My Trigger Guard]

You have allot of questions so let me answer the one I know for sure.

A Utah Concealed Firearms Permit is for "Firearms" only. It doesnt give you permission to conceal other types of dangerous items. Granted you may not need a permit to conceal said items to begin with. But a CFP only covers "Firearms".

[gravedancer]

but as I asked, I don't think a CFP automatically allows you to carry in schools either.

Yes it does... at least in utah. Public schools that is. A private school (stevens-hennager college for example) could outlaw firearms on their property, because its private property. However, you cant be criminally charged for carrying there either. All they could do would be to ask you to leave, and if you didnt comply, you could be charged for tresspassing.

[Cinhil]

You have allot of questions so let me answer the one I know for sure.

A Utah Concealed Firearms Permit is for "Firearms" only. It doesnt give you permission to conceal other types of dangerous items. Granted you may not need a permit to conceal said items to begin with. But a CFP only covers "Firearms".

Actually, having a CFP in Utah Does allow one to carry whatever lawful arms they desire, concealed.

[one4freedom]

You have allot of questions so let me answer the one I know for sure.

A Utah Concealed Firearms Permit is for "Firearms" only. It doesnt give you permission to conceal other types of dangerous items. Granted you may not need a permit to conceal said items to begin with. But a CFP only covers "Firearms".

Didn't you just get certified as an instructor? This is not accurate.

[My Trigger Guard]

Yes I did and they said firearms only, they also said that if can legally own the firearm you can conceal it.
But as stated previusly in other threads that is not entirely true. So your saying i am wrong then? How so..
I'd Rather get it right if you know what I mean.

[Car Knocker]

My Trigger Guard,

Re-read the opening post, particularly about 76-10-523.

[Cinhil]

I will just post the applicable statute for us:

Utah Code
Title 76 Utah Criminal Code
Chapter 10 Offenses Against Public Health, Safety, Welfare, and Morals
Section 523 Persons exempt from weapons laws.


76-10-523. Persons exempt from weapons laws.
(1) This part and Title 53, Chapter 5, Part 7, Concealed Weapon Act, do not apply to any of the following:
(a) a United States marshal;
(b) a federal official required to carry a firearm;
(c) a peace officer of this or any other jurisdiction;
(d) a law enforcement official as defined and qualified under Section 53-5-711;
(e) a judge as defined and qualified under Section 53-5-711;
(f) a common carrier while engaged in the regular and ordinary transport of firearms as merchandise; or
(g) a nonresident traveling in or through the state, provided that any firearm is:
(i) unloaded; and
(ii) securely encased as defined in Section 76-10-501.
(2) The provisions of Subsections 76-10-504(1) and (2), and Section 76-10-505 do not apply to any person to whom a permit to carry a concealed firearm has been issued:
(a) pursuant to Section 53-5-704; or
(b) by another state or county.

Amended by Chapter 362, 2009 General Session

As you can see, concealed weapons holders are exempt.

[shoot]

but as I asked, I don't think a CFP automatically allows you to carry in schools either.

Yes it does... at least in utah. Public schools that is. A private school (stevens-hennager college for example) could outlaw firearms on their property, because its private property. However, you cant be criminally charged for carrying there either. All they could do would be to ask you to leave, and if you didnt comply, you could be charged for tresspassing.

Upon a second reading of the code, I agree with you. I wasn't sure if the clauses had an implicit "and" or an implicit "or." Looking at another section, 76-10-503, it is obvious they use an implicit "or" if not otherwise specified.

[My Trigger Guard]

Okay I getcha, my interpitation of the law is the same as yours. However its not what they said in the instructor class.

I keep finding more and more of, what the instructors of the state teach you to teach, to what the law is or could be interpitated as differently. Making an instructors life very difficult in deciding what is the best approach when asked such things. Mainly becuase I Am Not A Lawyer and I am required to stick to the states guidlines. But I also dont want to provide bad information either.

But thanks again, another thing to file in the, how do I want to approach this cabinet.