Brass Knuckles and other weapons

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Brass Knuckles and other weapons

Postby BlackGhost97 » Sun 11 Jul 2010 8:23 pm

i have been searching and havent been able to find these laws for orem, but what are restrictions on brass knuckles? can i own them but not carry them? do i need a permit to carry them or can i just freely carry them as long as they are/arent seen?

Also what are laws on carrying weapons in the car for self defence? (mainly Tonfas, but also knunchucks, throwing knives, etc)
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Re: Brass Knuckles and other weapons

Postby Cinhil » Mon 12 Jul 2010 1:52 am

If you have a concealed Weapons Permit in the State of Utah you may carry any legal weapon without worry. Brass weapons are not something to worry about, neither are Tonfas, swords, Kamas or any other weapon which is legal to own.
What part of "Shall not be infringed" is not being abused today!

Even Knights had "Modern" weapons!

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Re: Brass Knuckles and other weapons

Postby BlackGhost97 » Mon 12 Jul 2010 7:52 am

if i do not carry a concealed permit, how may i carry them for defence with out getting them? i am only 16 so i cannot get a permit. would it be legal to carry some in my car, because im not concealing them on my person?
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Re: Brass Knuckles and other weapons

Postby hyrax » Mon 12 Jul 2010 8:18 am

In Utah, its a "concealed firearms permit" not a concealed "weapons" permit. There is a huge difference.
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

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Re: Brass Knuckles and other weapons

Postby Cinhil » Mon 12 Jul 2010 9:12 am

hyrax wrote:In Utah, its a "concealed firearms permit" not a concealed "weapons" permit. There is a huge difference.


What difference are you referring to? A CFP authorizes an individual in Utah to carry just about any weapon they desire just so long as it is legal to own. It may be called a Concealed Firearm Permit but it is an all inclusive permit which exempts one from laws/restrictions which govern those who do not have one.

As for the followup question concerning brass knuckles it should be covered in the following sections of Utah Code:

Title 76 Utah Criminal Code
Chapter 10 Offenses Against Public Health, Safety, Welfare, and Morals
Section 504 Carrying concealed dangerous weapon -- Penalties.


76-10-504. Carrying concealed dangerous weapon -- Penalties.
(1) Except as provided in Section 76-10-503 and in Subsections (2), (3), and (4), a person who carries a concealed dangerous weapon, as defined in Section 76-10-501, including an unloaded firearm on his or her person or one that is readily accessible for immediate use which is not securely encased, as defined in this part, in or on a place other than the person's residence, property, a vehicle in the person's lawful possession, or a vehicle, with the consent of the individual who is lawfully in possession of the vehicle, or business under the person's control is guilty of a class B misdemeanor.
(2) A person who carries a concealed dangerous weapon which is a loaded firearm in violation of Subsection (1) is guilty of a class A misdemeanor.
(3) A person who carries concealed a sawed-off shotgun or a sawed-off rifle is guilty of a second degree felony.
(4) If the concealed firearm is used in the commission of a violent felony as defined in Section 76-3-203.5, and the person is a party to the offense, the person is guilty of a second degree felony.
(5) Nothing in Subsection (1) or (2) shall prohibit a person engaged in the lawful taking of protected or unprotected wildlife as defined in Title 23, Wildlife Resources Code of Utah, from carrying a concealed weapon or a concealed firearm with a barrel length of four inches or greater as long as the taking of wildlife does not occur:
(a) within the limits of a municipality in violation of that municipality's ordinances; or
(b) upon the highways of the state as defined in Section 41-6a-102.

Amended by Chapter 362, 2009 General Session



Utah Code
Title 76 Utah Criminal Code
Chapter 10 Offenses Against Public Health, Safety, Welfare, and Morals
Section 501 Definitions.


76-10-501. Definitions.
As used in this part:
(1) (a) "Antique firearm" means any firearm:
(i) (A) with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system; and
(B) that was manufactured in or before 1898; or
(ii) that is a replica of any firearm described in this Subsection (1)(a), if the replica:
(A) is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition; or
(B) uses rimfire or centerfire fixed ammunition which is:
(I) no longer manufactured in the United States; and
(II) is not readily available in ordinary channels of commercial trade; or
(iii) (A) that is a muzzle loading rifle, shotgun, or pistol; and
(B) is designed to use black powder, or a black powder substitute, and cannot use fixed ammunition.
(b) "Antique firearm" does not include:
(i) any weapon that incorporates a firearm frame or receiver;
(ii) any firearm that is converted into a muzzle loading weapon; or
(iii) any muzzle loading weapon that can be readily converted to fire fixed ammunition by replacing the:
(A) barrel;
(B) bolt;
(C) breechblock; or
(D) any combination of Subsection (1)(b)(iii)(A), (B), or (C).
(2) "Bureau" means the Bureau of Criminal Identification created in Section 53-10-201 within the Department of Public Safety.
(3) (a) "Concealed dangerous weapon" means a dangerous weapon that is covered, hidden, or secreted in a manner that the public would not be aware of its presence and is readily accessible for immediate use.
(b) A dangerous weapon shall not be considered a concealed dangerous weapon if it is a firearm which is unloaded and is securely encased.
(4) "Criminal history background check" means a criminal background check conducted by a licensed firearms dealer on every purchaser of a handgun through the division or the local law enforcement agency where the firearms dealer conducts business.
(5) "Curio or relic firearm" means any firearm that:
(a) is of special interest to a collector because of a quality that is not associated with firearms intended for:
(i) sporting use;
(ii) use as an offensive weapon; or
(iii) use as a defensive weapon;
(b) (i) was manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date; and
(ii) is not a replica of a firearm described in Subsection (5)(b)(i);
(c) is certified by the curator of a municipal, state, or federal museum that exhibits firearms to be a curio or relic of museum interest;
(d) derives a substantial part of its monetary value:
(i) from the fact that the firearm is:

(A) novel;
(B) rare; or
(C) bizarre; or
(ii) because of the firearm's association with an historical:
(A) figure;
(B) period; or
(C) event; and
(e) has been designated as a curio or relic firearm by the director of the United States Treasury Department Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms under 27 C.F.R. Sec. 178.11.
(6) (a) "Dangerous weapon" means any item that in the manner of its use or intended use is capable of causing death or serious bodily injury.
(b) The following factors shall be used in determining whether a knife, or any other item, object, or thing not commonly known as a dangerous weapon is a dangerous weapon:
(i) the character of the instrument, object, or thing;
(ii) the character of the wound produced, if any;
(iii) the manner in which the instrument, object, or thing was used; and
(iv) the other lawful purposes for which the instrument, object, or thing may be used.
(c) "Dangerous weapon" does not include any explosive, chemical, or incendiary device as defined by Section 76-10-306.
(7) "Dealer" means a person who is licensed under crimes and criminal procedure, 18 U.S.C. 923 and engaged in the business of selling, leasing, or otherwise transferring a handgun, whether the person is a retail or wholesale dealer, pawnbroker, or otherwise.
(8) "Enter" means intrusion of the entire body.
(9) (a) "Firearm" means a pistol, revolver, shotgun, sawed-off shotgun, rifle or sawed-off rifle, or a device that could be used as a dangerous weapon from which is expelled a projectile by action of an explosive.
(b) As used in Sections 76-10-526 and 76-10-527, "firearm" does not include an antique firearm.
(10) "Firearms transaction record form" means a form created by the division to be completed by a person purchasing, selling, or transferring a handgun from a dealer in the state.
(11) "Fully automatic weapon" means any firearm which fires, is designed to fire, or can be readily restored to fire, automatically more than one shot without manual reloading by a single function of the trigger.
(12) (a) "Handgun" means a pistol, revolver, or other firearm of any description, loaded or unloaded, from which a shot, bullet, or other missile can be discharged, the length of which, not including any revolving, detachable, or magazine breech, does not exceed 12 inches.
(b) As used in Sections 76-10-520, 76-10-521, and 76-10-522, "handgun" and "pistol or revolver" do not include an antique firearm.
(13) "House of worship" means a church, temple, synagogue, mosque, or other building set apart primarily for the purpose of worship in which religious services are held and the main body of which is kept for that use and not put to any other use inconsistent with its primary purpose.
(14) "Prohibited area" means a place where it is unlawful to discharge a firearm.
(15) "Readily accessible for immediate use" means that a firearm or other dangerous weapon is carried on the person or within such close proximity and in such a manner that it can

be retrieved and used as readily as if carried on the person.
(16) "Residence" means an improvement to real property used or occupied as a primary or secondary residence.
(17) "Sawed-off shotgun" or "sawed-off rifle" means a shotgun having a barrel or barrels of fewer than 18 inches in length, or in the case of a rifle, having a barrel or barrels of fewer than 16 inches in length, or any dangerous weapon made from a rifle or shotgun by alteration, modification, or otherwise, if the weapon as modified has an overall length of fewer than 26 inches.
(18) "Securely encased" means not readily accessible for immediate use, such as held in a gun rack, or in a closed case or container, whether or not locked, or in a trunk or other storage area of a motor vehicle, not including a glove box or console box.
(19) "State entity" means a department, commission, board, council, agency, institution, officer, corporation, fund, division, office, committee, authority, laboratory, library, unit, bureau, panel, or other administrative unit of the state.
(20) "Violent felony" has the same meaning as defined in Section 76-3-203.5.

Amended by Chapter 62, 2010 General Session


I would use this as your guide, possibly even keep a copy of it for immediate reference should there be any issue arising from carrying a weapon in your car. Hopefully this may be of use to you, Blackghost especially as we look at your underage status. Whatever you do be extremely careful and in no way should you begin any confrontation. You can find the Utah Code at Utah.gov if you want to further view any other pertinent issues.

I hope this helps.
What part of "Shall not be infringed" is not being abused today!

Even Knights had "Modern" weapons!

'Sed quis custodiet ipsos cutodes' ("Who watches the watchmen?”)."
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Re: Brass Knuckles and other weapons

Postby BlackGhost97 » Mon 12 Jul 2010 9:31 am

laws are hard to understand, so if i understand it correctly i can keep it in my car as long as its not instantly ready for use, but with out a permit i cannot carry on my person?
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Re: Brass Knuckles and other weapons

Postby Cinhil » Mon 12 Jul 2010 10:01 am

In your car you should be fine.
What part of "Shall not be infringed" is not being abused today!

Even Knights had "Modern" weapons!

'Sed quis custodiet ipsos cutodes' ("Who watches the watchmen?”)."
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Re: Brass Knuckles and other weapons

Postby Car Knocker » Mon 12 Jul 2010 11:32 am

Be aware that both federal and state laws prohibit the possession of "dangerous weapons" in school zones. Quoted below is the Utah law:
76-10-505.5. Possession of a dangerous weapon, firearm, or sawed-off shotgun on or about school premises -- Penalties.
(1) A person may not possess any dangerous weapon, firearm, or sawed-off shotgun, as those terms are defined in Section 76-10-501, at a place that the person knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is on or about school premises as defined in Subsection 76-3-203.2(1).
(2) (a) Possession of a dangerous weapon on or about school premises is a class B misdemeanor.
(b) Possession of a firearm or sawed-off shotgun on or about school premises is a class A misdemeanor.
(3) This section does not apply if:
(a) the person is authorized to possess a firearm as provided under Section 53-5-704, 53-5-705, 76-10-511, or 76-10-523, or as otherwise authorized by law;
(b) the possession is approved by the responsible school administrator;
(c) the item is present or to be used in connection with a lawful, approved activity and is in the possession or under the control of the person responsible for its possession or use; or
(d) the possession is:
(i) at the person's place of residence or on the person's property;
(ii) in any vehicle lawfully under the person's control, other than a vehicle owned by the school or used by the school to transport students; or
(iii) at the person's place of business which is not located in the areas described in Subsection 76-3-203.2(1)(a)(i), (ii), or (iv).
(4) This section does not prohibit prosecution of a more serious weapons offense that may occur on or about school premises.


The term "on or about school premises", as used in Utah state law, is defined below:
76-3-203.2. Definitions -- Use of dangerous weapon in offenses committed on or about school premises -- Enhanced penalties.
(1) (a) As used in this section and Section 76-10-505.5, "on or about school premises" means any of the following:
(i) in a public or private elementary, secondary, or on the grounds of any of those schools;
(ii) in a public or private vocational school or postsecondary institution or on the grounds of any of those schools or institutions;
(iii) in those portions of any building, park, stadium, or other structure or grounds which are, at the time of the act, being used for an activity sponsored by or through a school or institution under Subsections (1)(a)(i) and (ii);
(iv) in or on the grounds of a preschool or child-care facility; and
(v) within 1,000 feet of any structure, facility, or grounds included in Subsections (1)(a)(i), (ii), (iii), and (iv).
(b) As used in this section:
(i) "Dangerous weapon" has the same definition as in Section 76-1-601.
(ii) "Educator" means any person who is employed by a public school district and who is required to hold a certificate issued by the State Board of Education in order to perform duties of employment.
(iii) "Within the course of employment" means that an educator is providing services or engaging in conduct required by the educator's employer to perform the duties of employment.
(2) Any person who, on or about school premises, commits any offense and uses or threatens to use a dangerous weapon, as defined in Section 76-1-601, in the commission of the offense is subject to an enhanced degree of offense as provided in Subsection (4).
(3) (a) Any person who commits an offense against an educator when the educator is acting within the course of employment is subject to an enhanced degree of offense as provided in Subsection (4).
(b) As used in Subsection (3)(a), "offense" means:
(i) an offense under Title 76, Chapter 5, Offenses Against The Person; and
(ii) an offense under Title 76, Chapter 6, Part 3, Robbery.
(4) If the trier of fact finds beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant, while on or about school premises, commits any offense and in the commission of the offense uses or threatens to use a dangerous weapon, or that the defendant committed an offense against an educator when the educator was acting within the course of his employment, the enhanced penalty for a:
(a) class B misdemeanor is a class A misdemeanor;
(b) class A misdemeanor is a third degree felony;
(c) third degree felony is a second degree felony; or
(d) second degree felony is a first degree felony.
(5) The enhanced penalty for a first degree felony offense of a convicted person:
(a) is imprisonment for a term of not less than five years and which may be for life, and imposition or execution of the sentence may not be suspended unless the court finds that the interests of justice would be best served and states the specific circumstances justifying the disposition on the record; and
(b) is subject also to the dangerous weapon enhancement provided in Section 76-3-203.8
except for an offense committed under Subsection (3) that does not involve a firearm.
(6) The prosecuting attorney, or grand jury if an indictment is returned, shall provide notice upon the information or indictment that the defendant is subject to the enhanced degree of offense or penalty under Subsection (4) or (5).
(7) In cases where an offense is enhanced pursuant to Subsection (4)(a), (b), (c), or (d), or under Subsection (5)(a) for an offense committed under Subsection (2) that does not involve a firearm, the convicted person is not subject to the dangerous weapon enhancement in Section 76-3-203.8.
(8) The sentencing enhancement described in this section does not apply if:
(a) the offense for which the person is being sentenced is:
(i) a grievous sexual offense;
(ii) child kidnapping, Section 76-5-301.1;
(iii) aggravated kidnapping, Section 76-5-302; or
(iv) forcible sexual abuse, Section 76-5-404; and
(b) applying the sentencing enhancement provided for in this section would result in a lower maximum penalty than the penalty provided for under the section that describes the offense for which the person is being sentenced.

It's almost impossible to get from Point 'A' to Point 'B' in an urban area without traversing a school zone.

Of particular interest to you as a minor is the following section of code:
76-10-509. Possession of dangerous weapon by minor.
(1) A minor under 18 years of age may not possess a dangerous weapon unless he:
(a) has the permission of his parent or guardian to have the weapon; or
(b) is accompanied by a parent or guardian while he has the weapon in his possession.
(2) Any minor under 14 years of age in possession of a dangerous weapon shall be accompanied by a responsible adult.
(3) Any person who violates this section is guilty of:
(a) a class B misdemeanor upon the first offense; and
(b) a class A misdemeanor for each subsequent offense.


Since the consequences of an inadvertent weapons violation can follow you for the rest of your life (employment, college admittance, security clearances, etc.), you may wish to carefully consider your motivation for, and the value of, carrying these "dangerous weapons" in your vehicle. It would also be prudent to be intimately familiar with the controlling weapons laws; after all, you're the one who will be paying the penalty for a violation, not the person who gives you incorrect advice. I would also strongly suggest consulting a competent attorney for an opinion - it would be much less expensive than retaining an attorney to mount a legal defense. I am, perhaps, a bit overcautious but, having read and rejected numerous employment applications of people who ran afoul of the law and dealing with co-workers who found themselves in similar situations, I would strongly recommend avoiding compiling a criminal record. Good luck.
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Re: Brass Knuckles and other weapons

Postby BlackGhost97 » Mon 12 Jul 2010 12:03 pm

Thanks for the help guys. i appreciate it.
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Re: Brass Knuckles and other weapons

Postby BlackGhost97 » Mon 12 Jul 2010 6:32 pm

sorry to revive this thread, but how might i obtain "legal permision" from my parents. and if i have that permission in which way am i allowed to carry dangerous weapons (as mentioned before brass knuckles, tonfas, knives, etc)
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Re: Brass Knuckles and other weapons

Postby Cinhil » Mon 12 Jul 2010 6:54 pm

Thanks Carknocker for the extra information, I had thought of the Federal School Zone issue but had forgot to grab that information. I'm glad you provided that info.

As for getting permission, at minimum you may need a signed and dated letter from your parents (I think you only need one's permission?) however, you may want to check further in the law to see if more is needed. As Carknocker pointed out, and virtually every citizen violates this, weapons in a school zone, 1,000 feet (Extremely ridiculous) must be observed when near a school, a day care center (even more ridiculous) and several other venues, are not allowed. This includes even a simple pen knife--Yeah, very ridiculous! Just do as has been suggested, look over your reasons for this and make a very informed decision and use every resource available in order to keep as compliant as possible so you do not have any record for carrying where you aren't supposed to - at least not until your 21 and can obtain the exempt status a CFP provides.
What part of "Shall not be infringed" is not being abused today!

Even Knights had "Modern" weapons!

'Sed quis custodiet ipsos cutodes' ("Who watches the watchmen?”)."
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Re: Brass Knuckles and other weapons

Postby BlackGhost97 » Tue 13 Jul 2010 11:37 am

alright thanks. would it be legal to carry the weapon on parents permision, or only own it?
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Re: Brass Knuckles and other weapons

Postby exrider » Thu 15 Jul 2010 9:50 am

I just wanna know how to have a concealed permit for my M16?
Last edited by exrider on Thu 22 Jul 2010 7:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Brass Knuckles and other weapons

Postby Cinhil » Thu 15 Jul 2010 2:19 pm

See my PM to you, I have provided some information on a contact who may know exactly the information you are looking for.
What part of "Shall not be infringed" is not being abused today!

Even Knights had "Modern" weapons!

'Sed quis custodiet ipsos cutodes' ("Who watches the watchmen?”)."
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Re: Brass Knuckles and other weapons

Postby BlackGhost97 » Sun 18 Jul 2010 6:47 pm

alright thanks guys
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