UofU Open Carry

Discuss issues regarding open carry.

Re: UofU Open Carry

Postby rcsob657 » Tue 10 Jun 2014 9:04 pm

Please allow me to get one thing straight. Your state legislators passed (and was then signed into law) a bill that allowed campus carry earlier this year right? I am assuming since this thread is still active, this particular university is still not allowing open carry? What about other schools? Are they not complying partially with just open carry or are they fighting back against all carry methods? You must understand we do not (yet) have campus carry in GA, but OC/Concealed is not a distinction in our weapons laws.
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Re: UofU Open Carry

Postby JoeSparky » Tue 10 Jun 2014 11:24 pm

To The schools are arguing that since a permit to conceal is required to legally carry then we must actually conceal. Nothing in Utah's laws actually mandates concealment.
The law in question is much older than one year!
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Re: UofU Open Carry

Postby rcsob657 » Tue 10 Jun 2014 11:48 pm

Alright thanks for that clarification. Sounds like your state Board of Regents (or similar body) has its head up its well...anyhow. GA is facing a fight similar to this. We just had two bills pass that are not in any shape or form conflicting each other, but our BOR and its allies insist that since one was signed before the other the 'early' bill is null and void. That bill they are all :nilly: about gives Georgia Weapons Carry License holders exemption from laws outlawing carrying in a 'School Zone' (aka campus carry).
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Re: UofU Open Carry

Postby Utah_patriot » Wed 11 Jun 2014 10:27 am

Today is the meeting with the general counsel always welcome to be their.

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Re: UofU Open Carry

Postby JulietHotel » Wed 11 Jun 2014 12:08 pm

Utah_patriot wrote:The day I have been waiting for is finally happening I will be meeting with general counsel tomorrow.

Just putting this out there if anyone would like to attend

It will be Wednesday at 1500 in the Park Building Room 309
So far it will be just me hoping for some legislative officials.

I will be dressed up and hoping to not turn this into a open carry event.

I will be hearing what they have to say and deciding if I have to continue further with legal.
Anyone is invited but let me know in advance so I can let legal counsel know how many are attending.


Good luck! Let us know how it goes. :mrgreen:
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Re: UofU Open Carry

Postby gravedancer » Wed 11 Jun 2014 1:13 pm

rcsob657 wrote:Please allow me to get one thing straight. Your state legislators passed (and was then signed into law) a bill that allowed campus carry earlier this year right? I am assuming since this thread is still active, this particular university is still not allowing open carry? What about other schools? Are they not complying partially with just open carry or are they fighting back against all carry methods? You must understand we do not (yet) have campus carry in GA, but OC/Concealed is not a distinction in our weapons laws.


Actually the law passed recently just clarified that the legal carrying of a handgun, regardless of whether openly or concealed, was not in and of itself grounds for a disorderly conduct charge, absent other behavior that would qualify. The issue that this thread has been addressing, is that since one must have a concealed weapons permit in order to legally carry at a school, some schools have argued that since a CCW is required to carry, that means that you HAVE to conceal when carrying on campus. This is akin to someone giving you a ticket for walking down the street, with the logic being that since you have a drivers license, you MUST drive rather than walk. In the past, the disorderly conduct charge has been their vehicle of choice for railroading open carriers, since they couldnt find any other law to actually charge them under. The recent law change that clarifies that OC is not grounds for a DC charge should make that tougher, but the OP is trying to force the school to fully adhere to state law and stop harassing open carriers.
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Re: UofU Open Carry

Postby bumpylight » Wed 11 Jun 2014 1:28 pm

Ach, such are the grim amusements of watching convulsive gun banners and hoplophobes in general struggle against the determined pushing of self-defense activists. If I were suddenly the King of the World, I'd have the entire body of hoplophobes confined to labor camps, manufacturing high-quality personal firearms upon pain of death for the slightest hint of sloppiness or deliberate sabotage. I'd also dance with delight at least once a day for having defeated the arrogant statists and forced them to self-abnegate themselves daily. ^___^
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Re: UofU Open Carry

Postby bagpiper » Wed 11 Jun 2014 1:58 pm

gravedancer wrote:
rcsob657 wrote:Please allow me to get one thing straight. Your state legislators passed (and was then signed into law) a bill that allowed campus carry earlier this year right? I am assuming since this thread is still active, this particular university is still not allowing open carry? What about other schools? Are they not complying partially with just open carry or are they fighting back against all carry methods? You must understand we do not (yet) have campus carry in GA, but OC/Concealed is not a distinction in our weapons laws.


...
The recent law change that clarifies that OC is not grounds for a DC charge should make that tougher, but the OP is trying to force the school to fully adhere to state law and stop harassing open carriers.


And to clarify just a bit, I'm not aware of anyone actually being charged with DoC or other crimes for actually OCing on campus if they have a valid permit. Campus police have tried to intimidate a few folks either with threats of charges or threats of some school discipline. But I don't think they've actually brought charges or imposed any school discipline on anyone.

I'd guess that looking, acting, and speaking like you have the ability and willingness to mount a proper and vigorous legal challenge to any such charges or discipline, along with a complete lack of any conduct that might be criminal would go a long way to having them back down.

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Re: UofU Open Carry

Postby JoeSparky » Wed 11 Jun 2014 6:14 pm

Utah_patriot wrote:Today is the meeting with the general counsel always welcome to be their.

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Wish I could have been there but it wasn't to be.

So, how did it go? Were you truly alone or did your attorney meet them with you also?
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Re: UofU Open Carry

Postby manithree » Sat 14 Jun 2014 12:58 pm

I saw your post on gofundme.com. UofU sucks.

So, what's your plan now? Do you need more donations? I'll donate more if you plan to continue pursuing this.
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Re: UofU Open Carry

Postby Utah_patriot » Sat 14 Jun 2014 1:20 pm

Sorry for the delayed update I was told that the University will continue pursuing this unlawful policy. I will continue fighting this unjust policy.

Not only is this a threat to public University's but could extend to K-12 if the police chiefs get together. I will continue fighting this unjust policy. I will not rest until this policy is abolished and I will continue funding this for the lawyer until all public University's stop making policy's that are unlawful.

I have vested a lot of time and money in this and am thankful for everyone who has helped. Even if you can't donate just share my page with everyone let's get the community behind this. This is an attack on all gun rights not just open carry what's next free speech zones and restrictions where firearms can be on campus.

Let's share the gofundme website I will continue fighting and organizing events to continue fighting this unjust and unfair policy.

Thanks to everyone I will not let you down.
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Re: UofU Open Carry

Postby Tenuki » Fri 10 Mar 2017 12:28 am

Hey Zachary, Do you have any updates on this?

My wife recieved the following email today from the Dean of the College of Social Work( don't even get me started on these guys and their one-sided rhetoric):

Dear College of Social Work Students,

Please be aware that state laws and University policies generally prohibit weapons on campus. Permission is granted only in limited circumstances, such as in the case of a concealed weapons permit holder. If anyone observes an unconcealed weapon, they are encouraged to notify campus police (801-585-2677). The police will check to see if the individual with the weapon has a concealed weapons permit and may meet with the individual to clarify and educate on what a “concealed weapon” means. There is no right to openly carry a gun on campus.

If you have any questions, please contact your instructor, the Dean’s office (801-581-8827), or the University Campus Police (801-585-2677 or 801-585-COPS).

Thank you,

Hank

Hank Liese, MSW, Ph.D.
Dean
College of Social Work
University of Utah
395 S. 1500 E., Rm. 111
Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0260
[email protected]
socialwork.utah.edu
@HankLiese
(801) 581-6194


Obviously this is twisting words, half-truths and outright lies, and she and several other classmates took issue with it and want to go talk to the Dean and ask him to retract and correct his statement.

I was wondering if there was any resolution to this, and if there are any cases that I can look to for reference as I am arming them up to talk to this guy about it.

Thanks!
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Re: UofU Open Carry

Postby JoeSparky » Fri 10 Mar 2017 4:24 am

Tenuki wrote:Hey Zachary, Do you have any updates on this?

My wife recieved the following email today from the Dean of the College of Social Work( don't even get me started on these guys and their one-sided rhetoric):

Dear College of Social Work Students,

Please be aware that state laws and University policies generally prohibit weapons on campus. Permission is granted only in limited circumstances, such as in the case of a concealed weapons permit holder. If anyone observes an unconcealed weapon, they are encouraged to notify campus police (801-585-2677). The police will check to see if the individual with the weapon has a concealed weapons permit and may meet with the individual to clarify and educate on what a “concealed weapon” means. There is no right to openly carry a gun on campus.

If you have any questions, please contact your instructor, the Dean’s office (801-581-8827), or the University Campus Police (801-585-2677 or 801-585-COPS).

Thank you,

Hank

Hank Liese, MSW, Ph.D.
Dean
College of Social Work
University of Utah
395 S. 1500 E., Rm. 111
Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0260
[email protected]
socialwork.utah.edu
@HankLiese
(801) 581-6194


Obviously this is twisting words, half-truths and outright lies, and she and several other classmates took issue with it and want to go talk to the Dean and ask him to retract and correct his statement.

I was wondering if there was any resolution to this, and if there are any cases that I can look to for reference as I am arming them up to talk to this guy about it.

Thanks!

They are reading the state requirement of possessing a "concealed carry permit" as MANDATING the handgun be "concealed". The law does not mandate that the handgun be concealed only that the person carrying the handgun has a permit to conceal. Also, just because one is open carrying in no way provides "reasonable articulable suspicion" that the carrier does not have a permit to conceal.

BTW--- Utah does NOT require that the one with a permit even has the permit in possession when they are carrying concealed!
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Re: UofU Open Carry

Postby Tenuki » Sat 11 Mar 2017 12:08 am

Yes, I agree and understand the law completely. My wife went in today to talk to the Dean after being thoroughly trained with a copy of the laws in hand. Apparently this was all started because someone in a class had their handgun exposed and a bunch of people couldn't handle its mere presence, so the police were called, the student was pulled out of class and given a good old law-disregarding liberal education on what it meant to carry concealed. (if you are on this forum please message me).

Anyway, things went pretty well while talking to the Dean, though apparently he is incapable of reading because even after handing him a copy of the law, he thinks that his own opinions is more important.

I am obviously not a lawyer and am not in a position to debate with you what the law provides. It is my understanding, however, that the exception under the law which permits concealed carry on school property does not permit a CWP holder to carry a weapon openly while on school property. I have confirmed this with our Office of General Counsel.

Best regards,

Hank


Hank Liese, MSW, Ph.D.
Dean
College of Social Work
University of Utah
395 S. 1500 E., Rm. 111
Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0260
[email protected]
socialwork.utah.edu
@HankLiese
(801) 581-6194


:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

On a good note, he seems to be stuck in the middle of us and his supervisors who are clearly misleading him. My wife has replied with another copy of the law and challenged him to read and reply with where it says that. This should be interesting.
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Re: UofU Open Carry

Postby Cinhil » Sat 11 Mar 2017 3:51 am

Tenuki wrote:Yes, I agree and understand the law completely. My wife went in today to talk to the Dean after being thoroughly trained with a copy of the laws in hand. Apparently this was all started because someone in a class had their handgun exposed and a bunch of people couldn't handle its mere presence, so the police were called, the student was pulled out of class and given a good old law-disregarding liberal education on what it meant to carry concealed. (if you are on this forum please message me).

Anyway, things went pretty well while talking to the Dean, though apparently he is incapable of reading because even after handing him a copy of the law, he thinks that his own opinions is more important.

I am obviously not a lawyer and am not in a position to debate with you what the law provides. It is my understanding, however, that the exception under the law which permits concealed carry on school property does not permit a CWP holder to carry a weapon openly while on school property. I have confirmed this with our Office of General Counsel.

Best regards,

Hank


Hank Liese, MSW, Ph.D.
Dean
College of Social Work
University of Utah
395 S. 1500 E., Rm. 111
Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0260
[email protected]
socialwork.utah.edu
@HankLiese
(801) 581-6194


:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

On a good note, he seems to be stuck in the middle of us and his supervisors who are clearly misleading him. My wife has replied with another copy of the law and challenged him to read and reply with where it says that. This should be interesting.


All I will say is that the U of U General Council has a stick firmly up their proverbial rear end and are completely incapable of obedience to law, let alone being able to read or understand the law as has been the case for decades. The General Consul is worthless and their opinions are negligent at best.
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