Where can I carry my gun???

Discuss issues regarding open carry.

Re: Where can I carry my gun???

Postby D-FIN » Mon 14 Jul 2014 10:17 am

bagpiper wrote:Right near the end, some legislators raised safety concerns about long guns that maybe were not as drop-safe as were handguns. To pass the bill, we accepted a limitation that the "loaded" portion applied only to handguns. Of course, those with permits are still exempted from the entire statute and can still have loaded long guns if they desire.


I could swear that I had heard on several occasions that this was not true that even with a permit long guns(in a vehicle) needed to be unloaded. However I could not tell you exactly where I heard but very likely somewhere here. This does not really affect me as currently only have 1 long gun and no need for it to remain loaded when not in use.
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Re: Where can I carry my gun???

Postby UtahJarhead » Mon 14 Jul 2014 11:24 am

The law is very explicit on this. No CFP = long guns unloaded. CFP makes you exempt from that law, meaning you can carry a loaded long gun in your vehicle.
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Re: Where can I carry my gun???

Postby bagpiper » Mon 14 Jul 2014 12:09 pm

D-FIN wrote:
bagpiper wrote:Right near the end, some legislators raised safety concerns about long guns that maybe were not as drop-safe as were handguns. To pass the bill, we accepted a limitation that the "loaded" portion applied only to handguns. Of course, those with permits are still exempted from the entire statute and can still have loaded long guns if they desire.


I could swear that I had heard on several occasions that this was not true that even with a permit long guns(in a vehicle) needed to be unloaded. However I could not tell you exactly where I heard but very likely somewhere here. This does not really affect me as currently only have 1 long gun and no need for it to remain loaded when not in use.


The ban on loaded guns in cars is found at 76-10-505 that offers an exemption to most cases of an adult in a vehicle he lawfully controls, but then also says that long guns must be unloaded.

76-10-505 wrote:76-10-505. Carrying loaded firearm in vehicle or on street.

(1) Unless otherwise authorized by law, a person may not carry a loaded firearm:
(a) in or on a vehicle, unless:
(i) the vehicle is in the person's lawful possession; or
(ii) the person is carrying the loaded firearm in a vehicle with the consent of the person lawfully in possession of the vehicle;
(b) on a public street; or
(c) in a posted prohibited area.
(2) Subsection (1)(a) does not apply to a minor under 18 years of age, since a minor under 18 years of age may not carry a loaded firearm in or on a vehicle.
(3) Notwithstanding Subsection (1)(a)(i) and (ii), a person may not possess a loaded rifle, shotgun, or muzzle-loading rifle in a vehicle.
(4) A violation of this section is a class B misdemeanor.


Utah issues permits to carry firearms under the authority of 53-05-704 which expressly exempts holders of said permits from 76-10-505 (as well as 76-10-504 (1) and (2)).

53-05-704 wrote:(1) (a) The bureau shall issue a permit to carry a concealed firearm for lawful self defense to an applicant who is 21 years of age or older within 60 days after receiving an application, unless the bureau finds proof that the applicant does not meet the qualifications set forth in Subsection (2).
(b) The permit is valid throughout the state for five years, without restriction, except as otherwise provided by Section 53-5-710.
(c) The provisions of Subsections 76-10-504(1) and (2), and Section 76-10-505 do not apply to a person issued a permit under Subsection (1)(a).
...



On a related topic, the ban on carrying a concealed weapon is found at 76-10-504 which was amended to not apply to vehicles...

76-10-504 wrote: (1) Except as provided in Section 76-10-503 and in Subsections (2), (3), and (4), a person who carries a concealed dangerous weapon, as defined in Section 76-10-501, including an unloaded firearm on his or her person or one that is readily accessible for immediate use which is not securely encased, as defined in this part, in or on a place other than the person's residence, property, a vehicle in the person's lawful possession, or a vehicle, with the consent of the individual who is lawfully in possession of the vehicle, or business under the person's control is guilty of a class B misdemeanor.
...


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Re: Where can I carry my gun???

Postby divegeek » Mon 14 Jul 2014 4:02 pm

UtahJarhead wrote:The law is very explicit on this. No CFP = long guns unloaded. CFP makes you exempt from that law, meaning you can carry a loaded long gun in your vehicle.

But if you have a CFP and want to carry a loaded long gun in your car, please make sure it's safe to do so, and that the gun isn't going to go off if it gets jolted hard. Your granddad's deer rifle is probably not safe.
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Re: Where can I carry my gun???

Postby UtahJarhead » Mon 14 Jul 2014 7:01 pm

divegeek wrote:
UtahJarhead wrote:The law is very explicit on this. No CFP = long guns unloaded. CFP makes you exempt from that law, meaning you can carry a loaded long gun in your vehicle.

But if you have a CFP and want to carry a loaded long gun in your car, please make sure it's safe to do so, and that the gun isn't going to go off if it gets jolted hard. Your granddad's deer rifle is probably not safe.

I tell all of my students they can... but in my opinion, there is never a reason enough for me to ever do so.
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Re: Where can I carry my gun???

Postby bagpiper » Mon 14 Jul 2014 8:00 pm

divegeek wrote:
UtahJarhead wrote:But if you have a CFP and want to carry a loaded long gun in your car, please make sure it's safe to do so, and that the gun isn't going to go off if it gets jolted hard. Your granddad's deer rifle is probably not safe.

I tell all of my students they can... but in my opinion, there is never a reason enough for me to ever do so.


I view this allowance a lot like I do Utah's allowance to imbibe in "adult beverages" while carrying.

Not every safety rule needs to be enforced by criminal penalties.

Now, if someone's person or property is injured as a result of violating common sense safety rules, or in other words, failing to maintain a reasonable man standard of care, then punishment is warranted.

But if a guy wants a drink with dinner while carrying, or wants to toss his long gun into the back seat for a quick trip across the pasture without fully unloading it, so long as no one else is injured or materially injured I don't see a need for criminal penalties.

Some actions carry such a high risk of harm to others that criminal penalties are warranted even if nobody is hurt on any given occasion. But others carry such a low risk that penalties should not attach unless some injury, or greater offense (like an ND) actually takes place.

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Re: Where can I carry my gun???

Postby UtahJarhead » Tue 15 Jul 2014 5:21 am

bagpiper wrote:Not every safety rule needs to be enforced by criminal penalties.

Yep. That's about the gist of it.
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