My prof FINALLY saw it at Weber St.

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My prof FINALLY saw it at Weber St.

Postby UtahJarhead » Wed 30 Jul 2014 5:00 am

I've been open carrying when I go to my evening class at Weber State and tonight, the prof (who is a lawyer of unknown expertise) FINALLY noticed. It only took him several weeks.

"Art! Are you OPEN CARRYING!?" (very jovial)

"Of course. Yay Utah!"

at which point, several of the girls ALSO noticed....

and proceeded to start a conversation on what they carry. :) 'Twas a good day.

We did a study group at Denny's afterwards, too. The waitress asked me if I had a permit for it. I asked her why it matters and she said because without a permit, they would have to ask me to leave. Very strange, but I told them I had a permit and they were just fine with that. The waitress herself had no issue with guns, you could tell she was just enforcing policy.
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Re: My prof FINALLY saw it at Weber St.

Postby Snurd » Wed 30 Jul 2014 6:07 am

I'm sure you corrected him and said, "That's Mr. McBeardface".
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Re: My prof FINALLY saw it at Weber St.

Postby Cinhil » Wed 30 Jul 2014 6:47 am

Sounds lie it was a very nice evening. Perhaps next time you are t Denny's though you could let them know that a person does not need a permit to lawfully open carry, just to edify them. Perhaps with greater knowledge they would be more willing to accept open carry, after all an eighteen ear old up until 21 has no other legal option to carry. Anyhow, sounds like a great experience and good to know several of the girls in class were also carrying. :thumbup:
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Re: My prof FINALLY saw it at Weber St.

Postby UtahJarhead » Wed 30 Jul 2014 6:54 am

Snurd wrote:I'm sure you corrected him and said, "That's Mr. McBeardface".

He's cool. He's allowed to call me Scruffy.
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Re: My prof FINALLY saw it at Weber St.

Postby UtahJarhead » Wed 30 Jul 2014 6:55 am

Cinhil wrote:Sounds lie it was a very nice evening. Perhaps next time you are t Denny's though you could let them know that a person does not need a permit to lawfully open carry, just to edify them. Perhaps with greater knowledge they would be more willing to accept open carry, after all an eighteen ear old up until 21 has no other legal option to carry. Anyhow, sounds like a great experience and good to know several of the girls in class were also carrying. :thumbup:

Yes, they know what's required. She said it was their policy, not the law.
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Re: My prof FINALLY saw it at Weber St.

Postby DaKnife » Thu 31 Jul 2014 1:52 pm

Just tell her you can't have what doesn't exist. Or act confused and ask what permit are you supposed to have? As there is no permit to own or to open carry in this state.
SPOOOOOOON!!!

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Re: My prof FINALLY saw it at Weber St.

Postby bagpiper » Thu 31 Jul 2014 4:32 pm

DaKnife wrote:Just tell her you can't have what doesn't exist. Or act confused and ask what permit are you supposed to have? As there is no permit to own or to open carry in this state.


Or, since this is a low-paid, low-level employee at a private business, we can smile and say, "Not to worry. I've got all the required paperwork. And I believe in leaving a decent tip." Now, whether that paperwork is a State issued permit, or just the US and Utah State constitutions matters not so much in this case as she isn't a cop, isn't trying to enforce the law, and there is no law against "lying to your waitress" if you don't actually have a permit but make it very easy for her to think you do.

Who on here has the signature line about hard to convert the sheep if we are always showing them our fangs?

Some battles don't need to be fought. Others are most easily won, by tactful non-engagement. No need to make life hard on someone who is probably working very hard to make a living and is required to make some effort to enforce a corporate policy she doesn't even care about. If a battle with corporate has to be fought, ask the gal for the manager's contact info after you've paid your bill and left a nice tip.

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Re: My prof FINALLY saw it at Weber St.

Postby Photocell » Thu 31 Jul 2014 9:27 pm

:agree: :thumbsup:

On a slightly side note Jarhead, are these girls that were talking about what the carry, single? :shades: :wink:
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Re: My prof FINALLY saw it at Weber St.

Postby D-FIN » Thu 31 Jul 2014 11:41 pm

bagpiper wrote:Who on here has the signature line about hard to convert the sheep if we are always showing them our fangs?


That ones mine.. :crown:
You can't win the sheep over to your side if your always showing them your fangs.

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Re: My prof FINALLY saw it at Weber St.

Postby bumpylight » Fri 01 Aug 2014 8:19 am

This is excellent advice, bagpiper. I really should take it to heart myself. I've grown to be better at diplomacy over the past twenty years, but I'm probably still a bit too militant in many cases when some arrogant statist jerkoff or pro-thug slimebag is trying to pull a fast one with lying garbage. In addition to thinking extensively about diplomacy and political tactics, I've thought long and hard on the dirty arts of propaganda warfare and counter-warfare, and I'm now exquisitely sensitive to attempted manipulation with bad premises and twisted logic.

I knew better, but in a minor exhibition of this problem, I momentarily took advantage of my excellent karma at Slashdot to really let loose on the convulsive apologists for the squirming Hamas filth in the Gaza strip who among other things deliberately built a terror tunnel right up to an Israeli kindergarten. This class of thugs loves to kidnap Israelis and is already known for purposefully terror-bombing school buses loaded with children. This was before the Israelis sealed off the border, naturally. As expected, the moderation went up and down, but in the end, the pro-jihadists won and moderated down my comment into oblivion. The thread it sparked is still visible, which looks a little strange when the first replies seem to be in response to nothing. :shock:

Don't even get me started on the Trayvon Martin matter, which seems to be a magnet for race-baiters who vomit endlessly that their little thug should have been able to continue to viciously slam George Zimmerman's head into the sidewalk until it was a bloody pulp. Ugh, there I go again. I hope this sudden tirade against thugs and their apologists didn't break the forum rules. :ack:

Oh, well. To get back on topic, I wouldn't have had any problem either with the waitress for the reasons listed in this thread. First, she's being polite, and second, it's obviously mandated by management. Even if a waitress were to be rude and abrasive about it, I'd still be teeth-grittingly polite because it's a private business and because being armed carries extra responsibilities. I don't go to private businesses where I'm not wanted. It's stressful and unproductive. Like most people, I prefer my day to be generally pleasant and filled with the usual polite hypocrisies with others who find my existence to be at least tolerable.

In addition to all this, the concept of of open carry is worth a determined effort to educate the public on its merits.

Waitress: "Say, you're carrying a gun!"
You: "Yes. I think it's worth quietly carrying it in case there's a problem with a violent individual who doesn't respect other people's lives and safety. I hope I get lucky, though! Most people never have to go through that." *shrugs and smiles gently at waitress*
Waitress: "Oh. Uh, yeah. Could I ask if you have a permit for it?"
You: "Utah doesn't require a permit for open carry. It's entirely legal. I do sometimes carry concealed with my permit, though. It all depends on the circumstances. I think Denny's is a nice restaurant where I can relax with good people." *eyes twinkle*
Waitress: "Ah, okay. I guess I understand. I had to ask."
You: "Sure! Also, I do tip normally, you know." *quick grin*
Waitress: "Okay, hah-hah! What can I get you today?"

Anyways, I think I'm babbling. The amazingly boring, 8000-word writing gig isn't going away. Back to it now! :lol3:

bagpiper wrote:Some battles don't need to be fought. Others are most easily won, by tactful non-engagement. No need to make life hard on someone who is probably working very hard to make a living and is required to make some effort to enforce a corporate policy she doesn't even care about. If a battle with corporate has to be fought, ask the gal for the manager's contact info after you've paid your bill and left a nice tip.
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Re: My prof FINALLY saw it at Weber St.

Postby ObiRich » Fri 01 Aug 2014 4:32 pm

Gotta agree with Charles. Not only was the waitress just the hired help and it wasn't her call, but you win more flies with honey than vinegar.
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Re: My prof FINALLY saw it at Weber St.

Postby UtahJarhead » Fri 01 Aug 2014 7:52 pm

I'm absolutely positive that the situation was handled exactly as it should have been.
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Re: My prof FINALLY saw it at Weber St.

Postby AlanM » Sun 03 Aug 2014 5:18 am

ObiRich wrote:Gotta agree with Charles. Not only was the waitress just the hired help and it wasn't her call, but you win more flies with honey than vinegar.


To quote Dr. Sheldon Cooper:
"You catch even more with manure, what's your point?"

Just a lame attempt at early morning humor.
I do think the "I've got all the paperwork I need to OC" is a great response however.
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Re: My prof FINALLY saw it at Weber St.

Postby UtahJarhead » Sun 03 Aug 2014 12:44 pm

I disagree with all of you. She's a waitress, not an idiot. People know when a question is being dodged. If you're difficult, you're going to get crappy service. They wanted to ensure I had a permit, and while I don't LIKE that, it's apparently their policy. Their rules. I had a choice, to stay there or to leave. As I was there for a college study group, I saw absolutely ZERO benefit in trying to pussyfoot around the affirmative answer here.
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Re: My prof FINALLY saw it at Weber St.

Postby bumpylight » Sun 03 Aug 2014 3:55 pm

I like to pussyfoot around sticky questions in general myself whenever possible for many and good reasons, one of which is that when I'm plain-spoken, people tend strongly to get all huffy and defensive about their hypocrisy. This is especially true when it comes to statists who love the idea of *their* thugs having guns but who hate the idea of anyone *else* having guns. I have a special talent for dissecting idiots who insist on flapping their double standards in my face, which doesn't work well for routine diplomacy. Hmmm, what did I just say? Was it on topic? Did it even make sense? Who am I? Is this Earth? Are the Vogons here yet? :nilly:

I'll never, ever again accept a gig to to boil down complex masses of amazingly fluffy information into snippy sound bites. Media organizations specialize in airy nonsense that ultimately implies little beyond the ability to string together barely related words with semi-random mental processes. My brain will need an overhaul and two gallons of oil after this. My ego is an idiot. :roll:
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