Man practicing open carry robbed of gun

Discuss issues regarding open carry.

Man practicing open carry robbed of gun

Postby UtahCFP » Thu 09 Oct 2014 5:52 am

http://koin.com/2014/10/07/man-practici ... ed-of-gun/

GRESHAM, Ore. (KOIN 6) — A man practicing his open carry right was robbed of the gun he was openly carrying.

William Coleman III was robbed of his Walter- brand P22 just after 2:00 a.m. October 4 in Gresham by a young man who asked him for it — and flashed his own weapon as persuasion.
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Re: Man practicing open carry robbed of gun

Postby UtahJarhead » Thu 09 Oct 2014 6:03 am

If you're going to open carry, you need to be very aware of your surroundings. No shame in covering it (if legally able) when you think you're alone or susceptible to violence.
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Re: Man practicing open carry robbed of gun

Postby quychang » Thu 09 Oct 2014 9:55 am

UtahJarhead wrote:If you're going to open carry, you need to be very aware of your surroundings. No shame in covering it (if legally able) when you think you're alone or susceptible to violence.


Maybe I'm overly suspicious, but this story has a fishy smell to me.

I can't imagine just handing my gun over to the first person to flash a concealed weapon my direction. First, if purchased new, it's tied to me by serial number. I'm not going to willingly put it in the hands of a criminal. Second, isn't one of the reasons we carry to defend ourselves from robbery and or bodily harm? What's to keep the criminal from taking the gun and shooting you to cover his crime?

I would have unholstered at his request, and then invited him to come and take it. If he had a gun trained on me, that would be entirely different, but if he never unholstered his weapon, he just gave me the upper hand by allowing me to draw first. Somehow I think the end result would be somewhat different.

But then, I wasn't there, and that's just me.

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Re: Man practicing open carry robbed of gun

Postby D-FIN » Thu 09 Oct 2014 11:02 am

The guy who took was probably just offended that he was open carrying a P22. :crown:


Wait he bought it earlier that day?......Almost sounds like a straw purchase disguised as a robbery to me.
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Re: Man practicing open carry robbed of gun

Postby Car Knocker » Thu 09 Oct 2014 12:03 pm

According to the article, the robber did a bit more than flash his gun:
The man then asked about the gun, pulled a gun from his own waistband and said “”I like your gun. Give it to me.”
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Re: Man practicing open carry robbed of gun

Postby quychang » Thu 09 Oct 2014 1:04 pm

Car Knocker wrote:According to the article, the robber did a bit more than flash his gun:
The man then asked about the gun, pulled a gun from his own waistband and said “”I like your gun. Give it to me.”


Well, that's a different kettle of fish. I'd still be tempted to give it to him one bullet at a time, but it's a close call.

Mel

EDIT: On further research, and looking it up, I'd probably have thrown the gun at him. Likely to do more damage than a .22.
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Re: Man practicing open carry robbed of gun

Postby Photocell » Thu 09 Oct 2014 3:03 pm

Car Knocker wrote:According to the article, the robber did a bit more than flash his gun:
The man then asked about the gun, pulled a gun from his own waistband and said “”I like your gun. Give it to me.”


A good reason one should train shooting from retention. This article isn't very clear though, and leaves to much question.
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Re: Man practicing open carry robbed of gun

Postby dewittdj » Thu 09 Oct 2014 8:26 pm

This is a prime example of why practicing and honing your draw and presentation is critically important.

First of all, action beats reaction every time. By drawing and firing two center mass shots in under a second, you are now inside your adversaries OODA loop. By the time he Observes, Orients, Decides, and Acts; you've ventilated him and if you added moving off the "X" then you are in complete control.

And how do you gain this skill? Practice, practice, practice!!!
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Re: Man practicing open carry robbed of gun

Postby gravedancer » Fri 10 Oct 2014 9:25 am

Car Knocker wrote:According to the article, the robber did a bit more than flash his gun:
The man then asked about the gun, pulled a gun from his own waistband and said “”I like your gun. Give it to me.”


Id still most likely give it to him "one bullet at a time" as Mel said. Or better yet, invite him to take it from my holster, and when he reached in conveniently close to do so, perhaps disable him by some other means.
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Re: Man practicing open carry robbed of gun

Postby D-FIN » Fri 10 Oct 2014 11:36 am

dewittdj wrote:This is a prime example of why practicing and honing your draw and presentation is critically important.

First of all, action beats reaction every time. By drawing and firing two center mass shots in under a second, you are now inside your adversaries OODA loop. By the time he Observes, Orients, Decides, and Acts; you've ventilated him and if you added moving off the "X" then you are in complete control.

And how do you gain this skill? Practice, practice, practice!!!


Speaking of this. I have had the training but I'd like to know how you guys practice these skills regularly. Do you just work the actions into your dry practice exercises since there are not many places you can do this kind of thing live fire outside of a class. My practice space is limited for much movement in the way of getting of the the X. I guess I could move to my yard and invest in a blue gun but then the neighbors will really think I'm a wacko.

We need a blue gun training group so we can all get together and practice.
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Re: Man practicing open carry robbed of gun

Postby D-FIN » Fri 10 Oct 2014 11:40 am

gravedancer wrote:
Car Knocker wrote:According to the article, the robber did a bit more than flash his gun:
The man then asked about the gun, pulled a gun from his own waistband and said “”I like your gun. Give it to me.”


Id still most likely give it to him "one bullet at a time" as Mel said. Or better yet, invite him to take it from my holster, and when he reached in conveniently close to do so, perhaps disable him by some other means.



This is a good reason for a BUG. once you give him the one (accidentally dropping the mag out in the process) he relaxes and thinks hes good then you can get him with the other one. :dancing:
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Re: Man practicing open carry robbed of gun

Postby dewittdj » Fri 10 Oct 2014 12:02 pm

D-FIN wrote:Speaking of this. I have had the training but I'd like to know how you guys practice these skills regularly. Do you just work the actions into your dry practice exercises since there are not many places you can do this kind of thing live fire outside of a class. My practice space is limited for much movement in the way of getting of the the X. I guess I could move to my yard and invest in a blue gun but then the neighbors will really think I'm a wacko.

We need a blue gun training group so we can all get together and practice.

Dry fire practice is the cheapest and easiest way to sharpen these skills, but at some point, you're going to need to do some live fire. Probably among the best options are the USPSA or IDPA matches held at Wahsatch, Cache Valley, Lee Kay, or the F.A.R.M. If you aren't a member, then the first time you shoot in a match is free (add range fee if you aren't a member of that particular range).

These matches allow you to test your speed and accuracy using a variety of scenarios and methods. They don't teach you the skills but allow you to test them in an environment that is challenging and adds a bit of stress as you race against time.

Most of the public ranges do not allow the general public to practice drawing and firing on the ranges used by the general public.
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Re: Man practicing open carry robbed of gun

Postby Sam Fidler » Fri 10 Oct 2014 12:32 pm

D-FIN wrote:
dewittdj wrote:This is a prime example of why practicing and honing your draw and presentation is critically important.

First of all, action beats reaction every time. By drawing and firing two center mass shots in under a second, you are now inside your adversaries OODA loop. By the time he Observes, Orients, Decides, and Acts; you've ventilated him and if you added moving off the "X" then you are in complete control.

And how do you gain this skill? Practice, practice, practice!!!


Speaking of this. I have had the training but I'd like to know how you guys practice these skills regularly. Do you just work the actions into your dry practice exercises since there are not many places you can do this kind of thing live fire outside of a class. My practice space is limited for much movement in the way of getting of the the X. I guess I could move to my yard and invest in a blue gun but then the neighbors will really think I'm a wacko.

We need a blue gun training group so we can all get together and practice.

Airsoft is one of the cheapest and most effective tools for the type of training you indicated. You can get a lifelike mock-up of most firearms out there that react the same as a real firearm in all aspects except for most of the recoil. You still get to work accuracy while moving and can include an opposing force to help you identify what works.

I'm not an airsoft gamer and have no intentions of joining a team. I just recognize the value of a good training environment that can provide immediate feedback in a realistic environment. I hope to have a good facility soon where the public can conduct this type of training.
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Re: Man practicing open carry robbed of gun

Postby D-FIN » Sun 12 Oct 2014 1:34 am

Sam Fidler wrote:
D-FIN wrote:
dewittdj wrote:This is a prime example of why practicing and honing your draw and presentation is critically important.

First of all, action beats reaction every time. By drawing and firing two center mass shots in under a second, you are now inside your adversaries OODA loop. By the time he Observes, Orients, Decides, and Acts; you've ventilated him and if you added moving off the "X" then you are in complete control.

And how do you gain this skill? Practice, practice, practice!!!


Speaking of this. I have had the training but I'd like to know how you guys practice these skills regularly. Do you just work the actions into your dry practice exercises since there are not many places you can do this kind of thing live fire outside of a class. My practice space is limited for much movement in the way of getting of the the X. I guess I could move to my yard and invest in a blue gun but then the neighbors will really think I'm a wacko.

We need a blue gun training group so we can all get together and practice.

Airsoft is one of the cheapest and most effective tools for the type of training you indicated. You can get a lifelike mock-up of most firearms out there that react the same as a real firearm in all aspects except for most of the recoil. You still get to work accuracy while moving and can include an opposing force to help you identify what works.

I'm not an airsoft gamer and have no intentions of joining a team. I just recognize the value of a good training environment that can provide immediate feedback in a realistic environment. I hope to have a good facility soon where the public can conduct this type of training.


This also reminds me to go try out the laser training stuff at The Armory or The Gun Vault sometime.
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Re: Man practicing open carry robbed of gun

Postby glock fan » Sun 12 Oct 2014 3:19 am

Tragic. Dude owned the gun for less than 2 hours when it was taken from him. I wonder where the gun was purchased.
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