Open carry on UTA

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Open carry on UTA

Postby faydee » Thu 08 Jan 2015 7:19 pm

http://www.sltrib.com/news/2034942-155/ ... weapons-on

Lawmaker wants to allow weapons on public transit

New state Rep. Norm Thurston, R-Provo, says if people can legally carry a gun or weapon on the street, they should be able to do that on public buses and trains, too.

"Did you know it’s a crime if an otherwise law-abiding person carries a weapon onto a bus or UTA [Utah Transit Authority] train?" he said. "Why would that be a crime?"

So Thurston is working on legislation to change a portion of state law that deals with hijacking. He said a constituent pointed out a problem with part of it.

The law says, "A person who boards a bus with a concealed dangerous weapon or firearm upon his person or effects is guilty of a third-degree felony."

It does exempt people with permits to carry concealed weapons, or people carrying them with the permission of the owner of the bus or train.

Thurston says the law, as written, could allow police to arrest innocent people carrying items they don’t consider to be dangerous weapons.


it's funny on facebook people are flipping out about OMG GUNS!!!!!!!!!! runaway!!!! I dont usually see that but it is on the Tribs FB page
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Re: Open carry on UTA

Postby Snurd » Thu 08 Jan 2015 7:21 pm

Looks like it would be a step in the right direction. I wonder if it will pass.
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Re: Open carry on UTA

Postby Uinta Firearms » Thu 08 Jan 2015 8:51 pm

UTA relies on taxpayer money to operate. We should already be allowed to carry on the bus and trains. They get money from every municipality they operate in.
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Re: Open carry on UTA

Postby D-FIN » Fri 09 Jan 2015 1:24 am

We can carry with our permit. UTA doesn't like OC and will ask you leave. I know a UTA employee who actually carries despite policy against it. I am pretty sure some of his supervisors know and it kinda of look the other way on purpose because it can be dangerous dealing with some people.
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Re: Open carry on UTA

Postby Snurd » Fri 09 Jan 2015 7:14 am

D-FIN wrote:We can carry with our permit. UTA doesn't like OC and will ask you leave. I know a UTA employee who actually carries despite policy against it. I am pretty sure some of his supervisors know and it kinda of look the other way on purpose because it can be dangerous dealing with some people.

UTA shouldn't be bothering anybody OCing on trains anymore. UtahPatriot did a lot of work talking to the higher-ups there, and also the police, if I remember correctly.


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Re: Open carry on UTA

Postby D-FIN » Fri 09 Jan 2015 9:09 am

Good because that always bugged me. I rarely OC and rarely ride UTA however so it would not affect me much. :). Generally if riding public transport you don't have any options to store your firearm anywhere else but on your person. Which makes a good argument for carry everywhere and required storage for anywhere the you can't.


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Re: Open carry on UTA

Postby althor » Fri 09 Jan 2015 3:05 pm

Uinta Firearms wrote:UTA relies on taxpayer money to operate. We should already be allowed to carry on the bus and trains. They get money from every municipality they operate in.


What does taxpayer money have to do with anything?
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Re: Open carry on UTA

Postby Uinta Firearms » Fri 09 Jan 2015 3:10 pm

althor wrote:
Uinta Firearms wrote:UTA relies on taxpayer money to operate. We should already be allowed to carry on the bus and trains. They get money from every municipality they operate in.


What does taxpayer money have to do with anything?

They receive public money, and are therefore subject to public law, just like the University of Utah. Utah's State Constitution very closely resembles the US Constitution when it comes to firearms. I can't recall the name of the court ruling against the University of Utah, but the ruling pretty much said that because the U received public money (taxpayer money from the state) to operate it cannot prohibit the lawful possession and carry of firearms.

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Re: Open carry on UTA

Postby althor » Fri 09 Jan 2015 3:24 pm

Uinta Firearms wrote:
althor wrote:
Uinta Firearms wrote:UTA relies on taxpayer money to operate. We should already be allowed to carry on the bus and trains. They get money from every municipality they operate in.


What does taxpayer money have to do with anything?

They receive public money, and are therefore subject to public law, just like the University of Utah. Utah's State Constitution very closely resembles the US Constitution when it comes to firearms. I can't recall the name of the court ruling against the University of Utah, but the ruling pretty much said that because the U received public money (taxpayer money from the state) to operate it cannot prohibit the lawful possession and carry of firearms.

"Cry, 'Havoc and let slip the dogs of war." - William Shakespeare


It has nothing to do with receiving public money.
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Re: Open carry on UTA

Postby Uinta Firearms » Fri 09 Jan 2015 3:35 pm

10-4. It is my understanding that a private business/entity can prohibit firearms possession on their property. But once that entity starts receiving public funding for the benefit of the public they must allow lawful firearms possession on their property. Once it becomes publicly funded the private ownership aspect goes away. You've told me that I'm wrong, but have said about a word about how, nor attempted to correct me. Please do so.

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Re: Open carry on UTA

Postby althor » Fri 09 Jan 2015 3:43 pm

Uinta Firearms wrote:10-4. It is my understanding that a private business/entity can prohibit firearms possession on their property. But once that entity starts receiving public funding for the benefit of the public they must allow lawful firearms possession in their property. You've told me that I'm wrong, but have said about a word about how, nor attempted to correct me. Please do so.

"Cry, 'Havoc and let slip the dogs of war." - William Shakespeare


Several claims have been made that once an entity receives tax money, it becomes a public entity and therefore is subject to the restrictions of 76-10-500. Nobody has been able to show that this is the case. I guess I'd be trying to prove a negative. 76-10-500 prohibits a local authority or state entity from enacting or enforcing firearms ordinances.

If the UTA is a public entity then they are restricted from making these rules unless the legislature delegates that responsibility. If they are not a public entity, then 76-10-500 is not relevant, regardless of tax money... in my opinion.
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Re: Open carry on UTA

Postby Uinta Firearms » Fri 09 Jan 2015 4:30 pm

althor wrote:
Uinta Firearms wrote:10-4. It is my understanding that a private business/entity can prohibit firearms possession on their property. But once that entity starts receiving public funding for the benefit of the public they must allow lawful firearms possession in their property. You've told me that I'm wrong, but have said about a word about how, nor attempted to correct me. Please do so.

"Cry, 'Havoc and let slip the dogs of war." - William Shakespeare


Several claims have been made that once an entity receives tax money, it becomes a public entity and therefore is subject to the restrictions of 76-10-500. Nobody has been able to show that this is the case. I guess I'd be trying to prove a negative. 76-10-500 prohibits a local authority or state entity from enacting or enforcing firearms ordinances.

If the UTA is a public entity then they are restricted from making these rules unless the legislature delegates that responsibility. If they are not a public entity, then 76-10-500 is not relevant, regardless of tax money... in my opinion.

This is a start to dialogue. Thank you.

"Cry, 'Havoc and let slip the dogs of war." - William Shakespeare
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Re: Open carry on UTA

Postby DaKnife » Fri 09 Jan 2015 7:48 pm

I say UTA is an entity of the state. Created by the state, funded in part by the state and overseen by the state it is a state entity.

http://www.rideuta.com/mc/?page=AboutUTA-OrganizationGovernance leads me to stick to this opinion.
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Re: Open carry on UTA

Postby JoeSparky » Fri 09 Jan 2015 10:22 pm

Gentlemen,

You are correct that the State Legislature has prohibited any state, county, city, municipal, or town or agency of the same from resticting the carry / possession of arms UNLESS specifically authorized by the State Legislature. And the State Legislature HAS made it a felony for ANYONE without a permit or LEO's ect to carry a firearm or other dangerous weapon on any public bus or train.

The UTA folks have "interpreted" this to mandate that concealment is mandatory--- and are pushing hard to maintain that status quo. AND I know that Utah Patriot has made an good effort to get them to see the light as that law is written--- I am not convinced he has been 100% successful--- AS MUCH AS I WANTED HIM TO BE!
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Re: Open carry on UTA

Postby Shay.ca » Sun 11 Jan 2015 11:31 am

So WITH a permit you can ride the uta trains or busses concealed?

I don't generally ride either but it's good to know. Always thought you could go anywhere except fed buildings, post office, court, less church buildings, secure area of mental hospital ect.
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