Open carry on UTA

Discuss issues regarding open carry.

Open carry on UTA

Postby Snurd » Sun 11 Jan 2015 11:55 am

Shay.ca wrote:So WITH a permit you can ride the uta trains or busses concealed?

I don't generally ride either but it's good to know. Always thought you could go anywhere except fed buildings, post office, court, less church buildings, secure area of mental hospital ect.

WITH a permit you can conceal or open carry on a UTA train or bus. WITHOUT a permit it is a felony to do so.

Here is the law:

http://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title76/Chapte ... 0118000101

.....snip.....

(4) (a) A person who boards a bus with a concealed dangerous weapon or firearm upon his person or effects is guilty of a third degree felony.
(b) The prohibition of Subsection (4)(a) does not apply to:
(i) individuals listed in Subsections 76-10-523(1)(a), (b), (c), (d), and (e);
(ii) a person licensed to carry a concealed weapon; or
(iii) persons in possession of weapons or firearms with the consent of the owner of the bus or the owner's agent, or the lessee or bailee of the bus.



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Re: Open carry on UTA

Postby Shay.ca » Sun 11 Jan 2015 12:44 pm

Snurd wrote:
Shay.ca wrote:So WITH a permit you can ride the uta trains or busses concealed?

I don't generally ride either but it's good to know. Always thought you could go anywhere except fed buildings, post office, court, less church buildings, secure area of mental hospital ect.

WITH a permit you can conceal or open carry on a UTA train or bus. WITHOUT a permit it is a felony to do so.

Here is the law:

http://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title76/Chapte ... 0118000101

.....snip.....

(4) (a) A person who boards a bus with a concealed dangerous weapon or firearm upon his person or effects is guilty of a third degree felony.
(b) The prohibition of Subsection (4)(a) does not apply to:
(i) individuals listed in Subsections 76-10-523(1)(a), (b), (c), (d), and (e);
(ii) a person licensed to carry a concealed weapon; or
(iii) persons in possession of weapons or firearms with the consent of the owner of the bus or the owner's agent, or the lessee or bailee of the bus.



Sent from iSnurd


That's what I thought. Thanks for clarifying and the link.
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Re: Open carry on UTA

Postby Snurd » Sun 11 Jan 2015 12:45 pm

No problem. :thumbsup:


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Re: Open carry on UTA

Postby chem031 » Sun 11 Jan 2015 7:16 pm

I'm not a lawyer; I'm a chemist. But I do know how to read.
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Re: Open carry on UTA

Postby D-FIN » Mon 12 Jan 2015 1:22 pm

Snurd wrote:
Shay.ca wrote:So WITH a permit you can ride the uta trains or busses concealed?

I don't generally ride either but it's good to know. Always thought you could go anywhere except fed buildings, post office, court, less church buildings, secure area of mental hospital ect.

WITH a permit you can conceal or open carry on a UTA train or bus. WITHOUT a permit it is a felony to do so.

Here is the law:

http://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title76/Chapte ... 0118000101

.....snip.....

(4) (a) A person who boards a bus with a concealed dangerous weapon or firearm upon his person or effects is guilty of a third degree felony.
(b) The prohibition of Subsection (4)(a) does not apply to:
(i) individuals listed in Subsections 76-10-523(1)(a), (b), (c), (d), and (e);
(ii) a person licensed to carry a concealed weapon; or
(iii) persons in possession of weapons or firearms with the consent of the owner of the bus or the owner's agent, or the lessee or bailee of the bus.



Sent from iSnurd


So In This Section:
(4) (a) A person who boards a bus with a concealed dangerous weapon or firearm upon his person or effects is guilty of a third degree felony.


Should mean that Open Carry is OK since it is not a concealed weapon even without a permit.
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Re: Open carry on UTA

Postby Snurd » Mon 12 Jan 2015 1:26 pm

D-FIN wrote:
Snurd wrote:
Shay.ca wrote:So WITH a permit you can ride the uta trains or busses concealed?

I don't generally ride either but it's good to know. Always thought you could go anywhere except fed buildings, post office, court, less church buildings, secure area of mental hospital ect.

WITH a permit you can conceal or open carry on a UTA train or bus. WITHOUT a permit it is a felony to do so.

Here is the law:

http://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title76/Chapte ... 0118000101

.....snip.....

(4) (a) A person who boards a bus with a concealed dangerous weapon or firearm upon his person or effects is guilty of a third degree felony.
(b) The prohibition of Subsection (4)(a) does not apply to:
(i) individuals listed in Subsections 76-10-523(1)(a), (b), (c), (d), and (e);
(ii) a person licensed to carry a concealed weapon; or
(iii) persons in possession of weapons or firearms with the consent of the owner of the bus or the owner's agent, or the lessee or bailee of the bus.



Sent from iSnurd


So In This Section:
(4) (a) A person who boards a bus with a concealed dangerous weapon or firearm upon his person or effects is guilty of a third degree felony.


Should mean that Open Carry is OK since it is not a concealed weapon even without a permit.

I would have to look at Mitch's book to be sure, but I'm almost positive that if you don't have a permit, you can't have a gun there unless you want a felony on your record. I'm not see why it just says concealed, but if you don't have a permit, don't take your gun on UTA.


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Re: Open carry on UTA

Postby D-FIN » Mon 12 Jan 2015 1:41 pm

Probably so I was just pointing out how the wording could be construed otherwise.
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Re: Open carry on UTA

Postby RustyShackleford » Mon 12 Jan 2015 3:11 pm

There are many places where these codes or Regulations are worded in that way or technically not correct or wording that is ambiguous. Like with the DWR wording when hunting with Bow or Muzzle loader.

From 2014 Big Game Handbook

'The firearm restrictions in this section do
not apply to concealed firearm permit holders,
provided the person is not utilizing the concealed
firearm
to hunt or take wildlife."

and
• Individuals who are licensed to carry a
concealed weapon (You may not use
your concealed firearm to hunt or take
protected wildlife.)


You would think that with as much as we pay lawyers to write these laws, they could do it in a more professional manner.
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Re: Open carry on UTA

Postby althor » Mon 12 Jan 2015 4:29 pm

So... what is wrong with those examples?
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Re: Open carry on UTA

Postby Uinta Firearms » Mon 12 Jan 2015 10:07 pm

They probably weren't written by lawyers.

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Re: Open carry on UTA

Postby RustyShackleford » Tue 13 Jan 2015 9:16 am

althor wrote:So... what is wrong with those examples?

I choose to open carry my .45 while hunting...It is Not My Concealed Weapon...but is perfectly legal.

I believe it is also legal for a CFP holder to also carry an M1 Garand over one shoulder while archery or muzzle loading hunting...as long as you don't use it to take said Game...My M1 is not my Concealed weapon either.

The problem is that when these examples (such as how they are worded by DWR) It becomes, as even many with a CFP believe..."you must Conceal"
I wish they would drop The "C" from the permit nomenclature. because it is clouding the issue when it comes to the "Firearm Permit" issued in Utah.
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Re: Open carry on UTA

Postby Car Knocker » Tue 13 Jan 2015 12:57 pm

RustyShackleford wrote:I wish they would drop The "C" from the permit nomenclature. because it is clouding the issue when it comes to the "Firearm Permit" issued in Utah.


Even "firearm permit" clouds the issue somewhat since it also covers dangerous weapons other than firearms.
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Re: Open carry on UTA

Postby Sam Fidler » Tue 13 Jan 2015 2:23 pm

D-FIN wrote:
Snurd wrote:
Shay.ca wrote:So WITH a permit you can ride the uta trains or busses concealed?

I don't generally ride either but it's good to know. Always thought you could go anywhere except fed buildings, post office, court, less church buildings, secure area of mental hospital ect.

WITH a permit you can conceal or open carry on a UTA train or bus. WITHOUT a permit it is a felony to do so.

Here is the law:

http://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title76/Chapte ... 0118000101

.....snip.....

(4) (a) A person who boards a bus with a concealed dangerous weapon or firearm upon his person or effects is guilty of a third degree felony.
(b) The prohibition of Subsection (4)(a) does not apply to:
(i) individuals listed in Subsections 76-10-523(1)(a), (b), (c), (d), and (e);
(ii) a person licensed to carry a concealed weapon; or
(iii) persons in possession of weapons or firearms with the consent of the owner of the bus or the owner's agent, or the lessee or bailee of the bus.



Sent from iSnurd


So In This Section:
(4) (a) A person who boards a bus with a concealed dangerous weapon or firearm upon his person or effects is guilty of a third degree felony.

I do not see any problem with the way the law is written. It clearly states that if you board a bus with a concealed weapon and are not exempted - the exemptions are also clearly stated - you committed a third degree felony. If UTA is trying to enforce a blanket ban on firearms without a CFP then they are clearly in violation of state preemption laws.

The only possible ambiguity I can see is whether or not they want to consider my pocket knife a concealed weapon.
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Re: Open carry on UTA

Postby JoeSparky » Wed 14 Jan 2015 12:59 am

Regarding the last few posts---- I was under the impression that Utah required all hunting to be done with center fired hollow point ammo---- Is this not the case? And since some may carry a "concealed" firearm with ball ammo then they would be in violation of the hunting regs to use that for the "hunt"!

I fully acknowledge that once a "concealed" firearm is drawn it ain't concealled no more! :swat:
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Re: Open carry on UTA

Postby UtahJarhead » Wed 14 Jan 2015 8:25 am

JoeSparky, it does need to be centerfire* (because rimfire doesn't come in big enough caliber), but not hollow point. It DOES need to be lead core and NOT fmj, so the tip is unexposed lead (not necessarily hollow). There are also minimum caliber restrictions, but I don't know what they are.

As the state makes the hunting regulations, nothing in the legislature allows them to restrict the mere possession of another firearm while hunting, regardless of the type of ammunition within that second firearm. USING that second firearm to take an animal is another story altogether.

* rimfire ammo can be used to take small game. Rabbits, coons, etc.
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