UVU and UofU OC

Discuss issues regarding open carry.

UVU and UofU OC

Postby SirGentleman » Sat 18 Apr 2015 10:16 pm

Hey y'all,

So I know there was a whole big issue with open carry at the U and UVU but I never heard, did that get resolved? Are we still fighting this? I'm currently at UVU and their police page says, "There is nothing specifically set forth in the Utah statutes that allows a concealed firearm permit holder to carry that firearm openly on a college campus." As far as I understand it that is false, correct? Doesn't the CFP expressly allow that? Any input to the current situation is appreciated.

Cheers.
I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by. -Douglas Adams
User avatar
SirGentleman
Marksman
 
Posts: 133
Joined: Tue 24 Mar 2015 10:31 pm

Re: UVU and UofU OC

Postby J_dazzle23 » Sat 18 Apr 2015 10:36 pm

SirGentleman wrote:Hey y'all,

So I know there was a whole big issue with open carry at the U and UVU but I never heard, did that get resolved? Are we still fighting this? I'm currently at UVU and their police page says, "There is nothing specifically set forth in the Utah statutes that allows a concealed firearm permit holder to carry that firearm openly on a college campus." As far as I understand it that is false, correct? Doesn't the CFP expressly allow that? Any input to the current situation is appreciated.

Cheers.


I think the answer you are looking for is here 76-10-505.5

I'll post the link. I don't see anything prohibiting a cfp holder from carrying on a college campus any way he/she pleases.

Laws are not allowance-based, the don't tell you what you CAN do, rather what you cant. And in this case, a cfp gives you an exception.

Please correct me if I am wrong guys.

http://le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE76/htm/76_10_050505.htm
User avatar
J_dazzle23
Marksman
 
Posts: 442
Joined: Tue 11 Jan 2011 2:23 pm

Re: UVU and UofU OC

Postby SirGentleman » Sat 18 Apr 2015 11:14 pm

J_dazzle23 wrote:
SirGentleman wrote:Hey y'all,

So I know there was a whole big issue with open carry at the U and UVU but I never heard, did that get resolved? Are we still fighting this? I'm currently at UVU and their police page says, "There is nothing specifically set forth in the Utah statutes that allows a concealed firearm permit holder to carry that firearm openly on a college campus." As far as I understand it that is false, correct? Doesn't the CFP expressly allow that? Any input to the current situation is appreciated.

Cheers.


I think the answer you are looking for is here 76-10-505.5

I'll post the link. I don't see anything prohibiting a cfp holder from carrying on a college campus any way he/she pleases.

Laws are not allowance-based, the don't tell you what you CAN do, rather what you cant. And in this case, a cfp gives you an exception.

Please correct me if I am wrong guys.

http://le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE76/htm/76_10_050505.htm

Does section 4 require ALL of A-D to be true, or does just one of those need to be true? Like maybe they are justifying it by using 4b and saying it's not approved? Does that make sense?
I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by. -Douglas Adams
User avatar
SirGentleman
Marksman
 
Posts: 133
Joined: Tue 24 Mar 2015 10:31 pm

Re: UVU and UofU OC

Postby J_dazzle23 » Sat 18 Apr 2015 11:18 pm

SirGentleman wrote:
J_dazzle23 wrote:
SirGentleman wrote:Hey y'all,

So I know there was a whole big issue with open carry at the U and UVU but I never heard, did that get resolved? Are we still fighting this? I'm currently at UVU and their police page says, "There is nothing specifically set forth in the Utah statutes that allows a concealed firearm permit holder to carry that firearm openly on a college campus." As far as I understand it that is false, correct? Doesn't the CFP expressly allow that? Any input to the current situation is appreciated.

Cheers.


I think the answer you are looking for is here 76-10-505.5

I'll post the link. I don't see anything prohibiting a cfp holder from carrying on a college campus any way he/she pleases.

Laws are not allowance-based, the don't tell you what you CAN do, rather what you cant. And in this case, a cfp gives you an exception.

Please correct me if I am wrong guys.

http://le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE76/htm/76_10_050505.htm

Does section 4 require ALL of A-D to be true, or does just one of those need to be true? Like maybe they are justifying it by using 4b and saying it's not approved? Does that make sense?

It is a list, as indicated by a semicolon (in my non-law degree opinion).

I don't see any way that all could be met in any instance- for example how could a and d both be met at the same time as the restriction on school grounds?

I'd love to see more clarification on that here from others. If I'm not mistaken, major nickmo probably had some unique insight here.
User avatar
J_dazzle23
Marksman
 
Posts: 442
Joined: Tue 11 Jan 2011 2:23 pm

Re: UVU and UofU OC

Postby SirGentleman » Sun 19 Apr 2015 1:30 pm

Wasn't Utah_patriot in some sort of legal battle with the U over this similar issue? Does anybody have any current info on it? I'd like to OC at UVU, but since I'm still a student there, I'd hate to face disciplinary action for doing so, whether or not it's legal. I dunno. The whole thing irks me, as I'm sure it irks many of the rest of you.
I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by. -Douglas Adams
User avatar
SirGentleman
Marksman
 
Posts: 133
Joined: Tue 24 Mar 2015 10:31 pm

Re: UVU and UofU OC

Postby JoeSparky » Sun 19 Apr 2015 8:42 pm

The list does not say "and" so it is not a cumulative exemption where one must meet a,b,c, AND d.

It is written as exemptions are: a,b,c, OR d! So, any one or more exempts one from the law!

Not a student at UVU.... But I'll join the UVU Republican club to give me a legal reason to be on campus and I do OPEN Carry 95% of the time!
JoeSparky
GOA Life Member
NRA Life Member
NAGR Member
UCC
OCDO

Remember IANAL
Praying that OUR Country can be returned to it's greatness and to it's CONSTITUTION!
JoeSparky
Sniper
 
Posts: 2901
Joined: Tue 08 Jul 2008 2:34 am
Location: Pleasant Grove, Utah

Re: UVU and UofU OC

Postby UtahJarhead » Mon 20 Apr 2015 6:11 am

Utah_Patriot wasn't in a legal BATTLE, per se... but he was in talks with them. It looked like it was making progress, but in the end, the U president told him to go stuff it and their interpretation would remain.

As to a-d, it specifically says 'or' in 76-10-505.5(4)(c), so you must only meet a single criteria to be exempt from the firearms law about possession on a school campus.

The criteria those two schools are using to attempt to ban Open Carry is that the possession of a CONCEALED firearm permit is what allows carry, therefore it must be concealed.

The law does NOT support that contention.
DO NOT talk to cops! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc
Utah Concealed Firearm Permit Instructor
NRA Range Safety Officer, NRA Certified Pistol/Rifle Instructor
Cub Master
Art Scheel
User avatar
UtahJarhead
Top Shot
 
Posts: 6570
Joined: Thu 24 Sep 2009 12:33 pm
Location: Ogden, UT

Re: UVU and UofU OC

Postby gravedancer » Mon 20 Apr 2015 9:57 am

UtahJarhead wrote:Utah_Patriot wasn't in a legal BATTLE, per se... but he was in talks with them. It looked like it was making progress, but in the end, the U president told him to go stuff it and their interpretation would remain.

As to a-d, it specifically says 'or' in 76-10-505.5(4)(c), so you must only meet a single criteria to be exempt from the firearms law about possession on a school campus.

The criteria those two schools are using to attempt to ban Open Carry is that the possession of a CONCEALED firearm permit is what allows carry, therefore it must be concealed.

The law does NOT support that contention.


Basically, were back where we were a for the past few years. We need someone with deep pockets to go OC on campus, get cited/arrested, and become the legal guinea pig to get some case law on the subject established, to put this to bed once and for all.
Image
http://bit.ly/2vHUiug will get you around the auto filtering of the domain on this site
gravedancer
Sniper
 
Posts: 1791
Joined: Mon 21 Mar 2011 1:46 pm

Re: UVU and UofU OC

Postby D-FIN » Mon 20 Apr 2015 12:39 pm

Since this seems to be CAMPUS LAW not UTAH LAW how do the CIty PD handle it if called in since no law was broken. Does the UofU have it's own court/jail/prison to incarcerate those who broke CAMPUS LAW but are perfectly legal in the rest of the state. Seems to me the police including the ones that work on campus swore to uphold UTAH LAW not CAMPUS LAW.
You can't win the sheep over to your side if your always showing them your fangs.

NRA RSO
D-FIN
Sniper
 
Posts: 1553
Joined: Sat 29 Dec 2012 8:39 pm

Re: UVU and UofU OC

Postby UtahJarhead » Mon 20 Apr 2015 12:59 pm

D-FIN wrote:Since this seems to be CAMPUS LAW not UTAH LAW how do the CIty PD handle it if called in since no law was broken. Does the UofU have it's own court/jail/prison to incarcerate those who broke CAMPUS LAW but are perfectly legal in the rest of the state. Seems to me the police including the ones that work on campus swore to uphold UTAH LAW not CAMPUS LAW.

Campuses are state institutions. All cops are POST certified and within their jurisdiction to handle it. Campuses typically DO have their own Police Departments. They're subject to the same laws as any other police agency in Utah.

There has been no legal "test case" to attempt to resolve this.
DO NOT talk to cops! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc
Utah Concealed Firearm Permit Instructor
NRA Range Safety Officer, NRA Certified Pistol/Rifle Instructor
Cub Master
Art Scheel
User avatar
UtahJarhead
Top Shot
 
Posts: 6570
Joined: Thu 24 Sep 2009 12:33 pm
Location: Ogden, UT

Re: UVU and UofU OC

Postby D-FIN » Mon 20 Apr 2015 2:46 pm

UtahJarhead wrote:
D-FIN wrote:Since this seems to be CAMPUS LAW not UTAH LAW how do the CIty PD handle it if called in since no law was broken. Does the UofU have it's own court/jail/prison to incarcerate those who broke CAMPUS LAW but are perfectly legal in the rest of the state. Seems to me the police including the ones that work on campus swore to uphold UTAH LAW not CAMPUS LAW.

Campuses are state institutions. All cops are POST certified and within their jurisdiction to handle it. Campuses typically DO have their own Police Departments. They're subject to the same laws as any other police agency in Utah.

There has been no legal "test case" to attempt to resolve this.


I know hence the purdy Sarcasm font color..... :lol2:
You can't win the sheep over to your side if your always showing them your fangs.

NRA RSO
D-FIN
Sniper
 
Posts: 1553
Joined: Sat 29 Dec 2012 8:39 pm

Re: UVU and UofU OC

Postby UtahJarhead » Mon 20 Apr 2015 5:45 pm

heh, sorry. Didn't notice any color change. Laptop screen was in the sun.
DO NOT talk to cops! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc
Utah Concealed Firearm Permit Instructor
NRA Range Safety Officer, NRA Certified Pistol/Rifle Instructor
Cub Master
Art Scheel
User avatar
UtahJarhead
Top Shot
 
Posts: 6570
Joined: Thu 24 Sep 2009 12:33 pm
Location: Ogden, UT

Re: UVU and UofU OC

Postby Utah_patriot » Mon 04 Apr 2016 2:05 pm

In essence campus police will cite you and it would be up to the Courts to decide your innocence.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
Zachary
801-448-7574
User avatar
Utah_patriot
Sharp Shooter
 
Posts: 807
Joined: Mon 26 Jul 2004 9:23 am
Location: Salt Lake City

Re: UVU and UofU OC

Postby mljdeckard » Sun 08 May 2016 9:25 am

This is important, I will make sure my cc students are aware of this status.
"Mindset, skillset, toolset. In THAT order!!"
Sinister Duck Tactical
http://www.facebook.com/groups/212701338903322/
I will teach CWP classes in your home or business
call or txt 801-560-2223
[email protected]
mljdeckard
Marksman
 
Posts: 115
Joined: Tue 09 Jul 2013 9:50 am
Location: Stansbury Park, UT

Re: UVU and UofU OC

Postby bagpiper » Fri 13 May 2016 10:06 pm

SirGentleman wrote: I'm currently at UVU and their police page says, "There is nothing specifically set forth in the Utah statutes that allows a concealed firearm permit holder to carry that firearm openly on a college campus."


The quote is accurate...and irrelevant.

State preemption statute at 76-10-500 requires the school to follow State laws with regard to firearms. They can do nothing more restrictive than State law. And no where does State law impose any requirement on a permit holder to conceal his firearm whether on or off a college campus.

In other words, the school's statement is accurate and deceitful.

But they are quite good at intimidating. They can threaten. And unless they actually cite you, it never goes to a judge unless you've got the wherewithal to sue them.

And if in the course of them browbeating or threatening you, you make any mistake in terms of creating a disturbance, threatening an officer (or anyone else), etc, etc, they get to issue a citation for a real crime, expel you, and probably claim it as evidence of the problems of OCing.

Obviously, they have more leverage over students and employees than they do over visitors to campus.

The Universities seem intent to push gun owners into the very closet recently vacated by the sexual minorities.

It is an issue that is being worked with State government. Bring it up with candidates this election season.

Charles
bagpiper
Sniper
 
Posts: 3107
Joined: Tue 09 Nov 2010 8:31 pm

Next

Return to Open Carry

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron