Is this concealed or open?

Discuss issues regarding open carry.

Is this concealed or open?

Postby Yonatin123 » Sun 30 Oct 2016 4:24 pm

Hello, I am new to carrying a gun and I had a quick question in regards to open carry. is this considered to be open carry or concealed carry?

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Re: Is this concealed or open?

Postby JoeSparky » Mon 07 Nov 2016 9:11 am

I see what I id as a gun at your waist. If it is identifiable as a gun in ordinary observation per Utah statute it is NOT concealed and not concealed is just that---- not concealed.

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Re: Is this concealed or open?

Postby jfwright1955 » Mon 07 Nov 2016 9:43 am

To me that would be considered open carry. If you were to pull your shirt over the firearm it would be concealed. Even if the firearm were to print through the garment it would still be concealed, although that may garner some unwanted attention.

That said, if a law enforcement officer was to see the firearm partially covered (the lower portion) due to it being carried IWB they may have a different view given the firearm could conceivably be considered partially covered. Remember, if a person has a partially or fully concealed firearm without a CFP it's an infraction and the person could end up stuffing money in some lawyers' piggy bank to defend them of a potential crime.
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Re: Is this concealed or open?

Postby bagpiper » Mon 07 Nov 2016 1:58 pm

Utah Revised Statutes (URS) 76-10-501(3) defines concealed as:

(3) (a) "Concealed firearm" means a firearm that is:
(i) covered, hidden, or secreted in a manner that the public would not be aware of its presence; and
(ii) readily accessible for immediate use.
(b) A firearm that is unloaded and securely encased is not a concealed firearm for the purposes of this part.

The firearm in the photo is clearly not concealed. In fact, one can argue that as much of the actual gun is visible as if the gun were in a typical kydex, OWB holster that covered the trigger and barrel.

So long as the shirt stays tucked behind the grip and doesn't slide over to cover the firearm at all, I think you are not concealed. And I doubt most Utah peace officers would argue any differently.

That said, remember a few things:

I am not a lawyer and don't get the hassle if you act on something that I told you in error.

Federal gun free school zone law is still in effect and covers 1000 feet from the property line as the crow flies. The only exception to that law is if you hold a valid permit issued by the State in which the school zone is located.

State gun free school law only applies to the actual grounds, but includes colleges.

Sans permit, the gun must be both not concealed and Utah unloaded.

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Re: Is this concealed or open?

Postby jktseug » Mon 07 Nov 2016 2:13 pm

My only thought is, if you put your arms straight down, does it hide it significantly.
I have a permit, but do open carry in a fashion like that quite often. (I carry about about 5 o'clock)
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Re: Is this concealed or open?

Postby gravedancer » Mon 07 Nov 2016 11:38 pm

Yonatin123 wrote:Hello, I am new to carrying a gun and I had a quick question in regards to open carry. is this considered to be open carry or concealed carry?


I believe the legal standard, at least in utah, is that if the average person would be able to identify the gun as such, then it is not concealed.
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