Rules of oc

Discuss issues regarding open carry.

Re: Rules of oc

Postby NormanXDm » Tue 19 Jan 2010 12:22 am

divegeek wrote:The less sure I am, the stronger I state them


I used to work for a guy like that - the more wrong he was, the louder he yelled. :lolbang:
"Be nice. Everyone you meet is facing a hard battle." - Marjorie P. Hinckley
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Re: Rules of oc

Postby Ryan1971 » Tue 26 Jan 2010 9:39 am

Thanks, tm ray. I do have my permit. I got it about a year ago I think. I have a question. Can I conceal carry in my car, loaded, without a permit or does the gun have to be visible?

Thanks,

Ryan
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Re: Rules of oc

Postby Snurd » Tue 26 Jan 2010 9:41 am

Ryan1971 wrote:Thanks, tm ray. I do have my permit. I got it about a year ago I think. I have a question. Can I conceal carry in my car, loaded, without a permit or does the gun have to be visible?

Thanks,

Ryan

You CAN carry loaded, concealed without a permit in your car, but if you get out of the car, not having a permit, it better not be loaded or concealed.
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Re: Rules of oc

Postby Snurd » Tue 26 Jan 2010 9:47 am

Here is the law as a backup to my statement:

76-10-504. Carrying concealed dangerous weapon -- Penalties.
(1) Except as provided in Section 76-10-503 and in Subsections (2), (3), and (4), a person who carries a concealed dangerous weapon, as defined in Section 76-10-501, including an unloaded firearm on his or her person or one that is readily accessible for immediate use which is not securely encased, as defined in this part, in or on a place other than the person's residence, property, a vehicle in the person's lawful possession, or a vehicle, with the consent of the individual who is lawfully in possession of the vehicle, or business under the person's control is guilty of a class B misdemeanor.
(2) A person who carries a concealed dangerous weapon which is a loaded firearm in violation of Subsection (1) is guilty of a class A misdemeanor.
(3) A person who carries concealed a sawed-off shotgun or a sawed-off rifle is guilty of a second degree felony.
(4) If the concealed firearm is used in the commission of a violent felony as defined in Section 76-3-203.5, and the person is a party to the offense, the person is guilty of a second degree felony.
(5) Nothing in Subsection (1) or (2) shall prohibit a person engaged in the lawful taking of protected or unprotected wildlife as defined in Title 23, Wildlife Resources Code of Utah, from carrying a concealed weapon or a concealed firearm with a barrel length of four inches or greater as long as the taking of wildlife does not occur:
(a) within the limits of a municipality in violation of that municipality's ordinances; or
(b) upon the highways of the state as defined in Section 41-6a-102.

76-10-505. Carrying loaded firearm in vehicle or on street.
(1) Unless otherwise authorized by law, a person may not carry a loaded firearm:
(a) in or on a vehicle, unless:
(i) the vehicle is in the person's lawful possession; or
(ii) the person is carrying the loaded firearm in a vehicle with the consent of the person lawfully in possession of the vehicle
;
(b) on a public street; or
(c) in a posted prohibited area.
(2) Subsection (1)(a) does not apply to a minor under 18 years of age, since a minor under 18 years of age may not carry a loaded firearm in or on a vehicle.
(3) Notwithstanding Subsection (1)(a)(i) and (ii), a person may not possess a loaded rifle, shotgun, or muzzle-loading rifle in a vehicle.
(4) A violation of this section is a class B misdemeanor.
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Re: Rules of oc

Postby MajorNickmo » Tue 26 Jan 2010 12:50 pm

T.M.Ray wrote:Ryan 1971- I see you're rather new here on the board, and I would like to say welcome to UCC. This is a great place to learn soooo much info. There are some super educated folks on here.
Concerning your post: although I am a permit holder, I have become a HUGE fan of loaded & charged Open Carry (O/C) and what we have labeled here on UCC as "Casual Carry". I don't know how much you know about O/C, so forgive me if you already know the points I will cover.
I assume that you don't have your permit yet; forgive me if I'm wrong. As Rupper said, having the permit allows you to carry your firearm on PUBLIC school grounds, fully loaded and charged. If you do not have the permit, you can pass through a school zone, but cannot loiter outside a vehicle within 1,000 ft. As you may know, Utah law now allows you to have your weapon in the vehicle loaded without a permit.
Now, with -or- without the permit, you can be still asked to remove your firearm from any private establishment. Understand this: if you are walking into a store and see the "no firearms" sign, and pass through carrying, you're probably not going to go to jail or anything like that. The only thing the purveyor of the establishment can do is ask you to return the firearm to your vehicle or otherwise leave the premises. If you fail to do so and they call the police, they will probably ask you to do the same. About the only thing they can charge you with is trespassing or disturbing the peace. (*IANAL!)
Even with the permit, you still CANNOT have a firearm O/C or C/C in a courthouse or stand-alone (federal) POST OFFICE. Now, if you have a post office "store" like we do in Syracuse, which is inside the city offices, this law does not apply.

DO NOT open-carry your firearm on any TRAX, UTA, or FRONTRUNNER TRAIN without a permit. If you do so, you may end up going to jail. (See my prior post on this) Remember, the LDS Church is on Utah's NO GUNS list. No other churches are currently listed. As you may have seen on the board, there are sometimes issues at Jazz games. That's a 50/50 chance you may get in, may not.

Finally, let me say this, I O/C 95% of the time, almost everywhere. Know what happens? NOTHING. Most people don't even notice, no kidding. 8) I dress nice when I'm out. I have a nice belt and holster that I'm sure keeps my firearm well secured and the trigger covered. In fact, I get asked quite often if I'm a police officer. (others have too, I've read). I reply with a, "no," and then the questions start. Most of the time it's people that want to know the "rules" of having my firearm. I use this moment to politely educate folks, if I have time, and to try to win the minds of folks who may be on the fence of O/C-ing themselves. Others will cover more points I'm sure. I open carry my firearm EVERYWHERE. I goto Wal-Mart, Staples, Chili's, Goldenwest Credit Union and Barnes Bank (RIP). I go to Smith's, Home Depot, Lowes, etc. with NO problems, all the time. It will feel strange for awhile, but you will get used to it. :-) Good Luck !!
P.S. If you have some tough quesitons, ask Divegeek, he is a wealth of information (sorry Shawn, lol)


+1,000 I have the EXACT same experiences with OC as T.M. Ray. No one notices and those that do notice I have polite conversations with. Just yesterday I had a middle-aged lady who was sitting next to me in my Managerial Accounting class at UVU say,with a smile on her face, "Apparently you don't have to keep it concealed huh?" I politely explained to her the great laws in Utah that guarantee my rights as outlined in the Constitution. She said, still smiling, "Interesting, I didn't know that. Well, I'm glad that you have that right."
This is how it always go down.
Just the other night I got pulled over for "not signaling for a FULL 2 SECONDS before changing lanes" and I politely informed the obviously bored Provo cop that I was CC (rare, b/c I OC 95% of the time) and where my gun was (not necessary anymore, I know...and my keys were on the dash and I had turned dome lights on) He made a stupid joke about weed and the brownies my fiance was holding, then he asked what I was carrying, I told him a Sig P226 and he replied that that is what he was carrying. I told that I know that the majority of Provo cops carry the Sig. I asked if I was free to go (like the videos on youtube told me too ;-) and he gave me a verbal warning about signaling longer before changing lanes and I was off. I think he was hoping to catch me on a seat-belt violation $$$ because he had been following me for nearly 2 miles after my "alleged" violation before he turned his lights on.
My point is, no one cares!!! Or even notices! And those that do notice, they usually just ask about it, so be ready to politely answer and be sure to have a firm grasp on Utah laws. If you have a hard time remembering them, print them out and put them in your wallet or purse. (ladies)
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Re: Rules of oc

Postby Cinhil » Tue 26 Jan 2010 2:56 pm

Daeyel wrote:
Cinhil wrote:Well, both the Drivers License and the CCW are rights, but government feels they must charge you for them for you to be able to exercise these inherent rights. A CCW also allows you to carry almost any weapon legally allowed a citizen to possess. Kind of hard to conceal a tank! (wink) :tank: Seriously though, you could conceal a sword, a knife, a pistol etc. as long as it is a lawful weapon you may carry it concealed or not.


A small correction here.
You do NOT have the RIGHT to drive. Driving a deadly 2 ton mass of metal is a PRIVILEGE the state will grant you after you show you have taken the appropriate classes on how to operate one safely, and have a reasonable understanding of the laws and regulations pertaining to speed, rights of way, etc etc.

In no way is it a right.

Gun ownership, however, IS a right as guaranteed by the 2nd Amendment.


No correction needed here, the Right to Travel is a constitutionally protected Right and has been upheld on numerous occasions where cities or states have sought to deprive citizens of monies. You may find these decisions in many places within the texts of law books, where they quote decisions, and other public sources, including law libraries. Some decisions are listed on some web sites as well. But that was not why I posted here, I only mentioned inherent rights which government entities feel they have a ability to charge you in order to allow you certain rights, such as driving or carrying concealed. This other can be a whole thread by itself, should you desire further information, or research may be done to discover it as I have done.
What part of "Shall not be infringed" is not being abused today!

Even Knights had "Modern" weapons!

'Sed quis custodiet ipsos cutodes' ("Who watches the watchmen?”)."
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Re: Rules of oc

Postby divegeek » Tue 26 Jan 2010 4:32 pm

Cinhil wrote:No correction needed here, the Right to Travel is a constitutionally protected Right and has been upheld on numerous occasions where cities or states have sought to deprive citizens of monies.

However, numerous court rulings have also upheld the authority of the states to restrict travel by automobile.
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Re: Rules of oc

Postby Ryan1971 » Wed 27 Jan 2010 6:23 pm

If I don't have a permit, can I carry my gun in my car "utah loaded? And does it have to be concealed or visible in the vehicle? I remember reading something about this.

Thanks
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Re: Rules of oc

Postby Snurd » Wed 27 Jan 2010 6:39 pm

Ryan1971 wrote:If I don't have a permit, can I carry my gun in my car "utah loaded? And does it have to be concealed or visible in the vehicle? I remember reading something about this.

Thanks

I already answered your question a few posts above this. It is the two (2) posts below the post when you asked the first time. :type: :thumbsup:
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Re: Rules of oc

Postby Ryan1971 » Wed 27 Jan 2010 9:50 pm

Thanks. I did not see that.
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Re: Rules of oc

Postby Ryan1971 » Sun 02 Nov 2014 8:50 am

Hello everyone. Just wanted to make sure I was updated on the rules of a concealed weapon permit holder. Do all of the rules from 2010 still apply. I.e. carrying in a school zone, carrying with a round in the chamber, carrying open or concealed etc. If you have a concealed weapons permit you can carry concealed or open correct? Thank you
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Re: Rules of oc

Postby Snurd » Sun 02 Nov 2014 8:58 am

Ryan1971 wrote:Hello everyone. Just wanted to make sure I was updated on the rules of a concealed weapon permit holder. Do all of the rules from 2010 still apply. I.e. carrying in a school zone, carrying with a round in the chamber, carrying open or concealed etc. If you have a concealed weapons permit you can carry concealed or open correct? Thank you


The laws are found here:

http://le.utah.gov/UtahCode/section.jsp?code=76-10

I would recommend reading them for yourself to make sure that you understand them. They are between 76-10-500 and 76-10-530. There are other places for some of the laws, but these are the laws that you are asking about.

With a Utah CFP, you can carry at Utah schools with a firearm. You can carry loaded or unloaded. You can carry concealed or open.
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Re: Rules of oc

Postby Ryan1971 » Sun 02 Nov 2014 11:33 am

snurd, thanks for your help i appreciate it and utah loaded is one in the chamber correct?
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Re: Rules of oc

Postby Snurd » Sun 02 Nov 2014 11:46 am

Ryan1971 wrote:snurd, thanks for your help i appreciate it and utah loaded is one in the chamber correct?

It is.

Utah unloaded is a full magazine in a semi auto, but nothing in the chamber.
Last edited by Snurd on Sun 02 Nov 2014 11:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rules of oc

Postby gravedancer » Sun 02 Nov 2014 11:46 am

Ryan1971 wrote:I posted this yesterday but I don't know if it actually posted. What are the rules on oc versus cc if you have a concealed weapons permit? I did not think we were allowed to open carry.

Thanks,

Ryan


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