UVU cops detained me for OCing on campus

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Re: UVU cops detained me for OCing on campus

Postby UtahJarhead » Fri 05 Mar 2010 10:29 pm

OH HECK NO! I just watched the second video. He's threatening you with school sanctions and banning from campus altogether. Dude, you better take this as high up as you can.
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Re: UVU cops detained me for OCing on campus

Postby MajorNickmo » Fri 05 Mar 2010 10:50 pm

UtahJarhead wrote:OH HECK NO! I just watched the second video. He's threatening you with school sanctions and banning from campus altogether. Dude, you better take this as high up as you can.


I should have just said, "Fine, arrest me because I know the law is on my side and I'll have the judge fix this for me."
Or I should have said, "Please call your superior."

Instead I just caved and gave into their illegal bluffs. :oops: :thumbdn:
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Re: UVU cops detained me for OCing on campus

Postby thejerk » Fri 05 Mar 2010 10:58 pm

Frustrating. You got cajones for being the one to be open carrying on campus, I wouldn't be willing to deal with it. I think everybody on this forum will take their hats of to you for the way you handled it. Sure, you can look back and think, "dang, shoulda said this..." but in reality you did awesome. Cop seemed like a reasonable, okay guy, or at least he was playing the reasonable, okay, buddy cop character, but he's still mistaken (and I think he knew it by the end of your conversation. He shifted to arguing school policy and backed off on the law after you explained it to him. The school policy bit is what we're dealing with up at the U). Better get some things clarified with campus police so that in the future these officers will see you open carrying on campus and nod at you with deference, because they found out they were in the wrong.
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Re: UVU cops detained me for OCing on campus

Postby rpyne » Fri 05 Mar 2010 11:10 pm

Please send your story and the video to Representative Becky Lockhart ( [email protected] ). I have been talking to her about the need for a change in the disorderly conduct law because of this kind of incident. She told me that she has committed to working with the NRA in clarifying the Concealed Carry laws in next years legislature. (I haven't had a chace yet to ask her to work with USSC and take the NRA with a grain of salt).
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Re: UVU cops detained me for OCing on campus

Postby MajorNickmo » Sat 06 Mar 2010 12:03 am

I didn't think I would be so intimidated by these guys! I totally wussed out. :-( I REALLY wish I had had the cajones to pull my iPhone out at the very beginning, because that was the most intimidating part. Next time I'm asked for my ID, I'm going to pull out my phone at the same time.
I showed the officers who detained me, two other campus officers business cards who I have had previous conversations with about the legality of OCing on campus and that's why the officer in the video continues that conversation. (THEY even tried to intimidate me back then with a possible "disorderly conduct" charge too, but were much more civil about it.)

An email to Mitch Vilos has been sent.
Next up, my AWESOME state senator Margaret Dayton.
Then Congressman Chaffetz, who asked me two weeks ago (not 50 yards from where this went down) "I don't know why more Utahans don't OC." (This is why! Because we get intimidated by uneducated cops.)

Ugh...So now what...should I keep OCing? And have them arrest me next time?

IF they really want to arrest me for something, should I ask them to charge me with a weapons violation (which doesn't exist :thumbsup: ) instead of disorderly conduct because "disorderly conduct" is a total trumped up, BS charge. Am I right?
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Re: UVU cops detained me for OCing on campus

Postby JoeSparky » Sat 06 Mar 2010 12:10 am

I just sent a message via Facebook to Rep. Carl Wimmer with a request that he look at this thread and let me know what he thinks about this....
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Re: UVU cops detained me for OCing on campus

Postby Stephler » Sat 06 Mar 2010 12:11 am

rpyne wrote:Please send your story and the video to Representative Becky Lockhart ( [email protected] ). I have been talking to her about the need for a change in the disorderly conduct law because of this kind of incident. She told me that she has committed to working with the NRA in clarifying the Concealed Carry laws in next years legislature. (I haven't had a chace yet to ask her to work with USSC and take the NRA with a grain of salt).


The state legislatures consider Rep. Curtis Oda to be the "resident gun guy" that they turn to (Brad Daw, Margaret Dayton, and others have told me this). He may be a good person to contact as well as Becky Lockhart.

Curtis' email is: [email protected]

Nick, I sent Mitch Vilos an email and we'll see what he suggests. I may see him at a shoot tomorrow and will talk with him there if he shows up. I'm committed to helping you with this since we are both students at UVU and I occasionally OC and got my picture with Chaffetz while OC-ing on campus (probably won't OC on campus until we can get this figured out). Shirtleff is on the radio enough that I plan to call in next time he's doing an interview to ask him about college OC and ask him to commit to clarify this with state colleges. I wonder if he'd be willing to show up to our April 2nd event since other high profile people will be there???

Anyway, you did a great job! My next phone will have to be an iPhone because mine doesn't have these capabilities.
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Re: UVU cops detained me for OCing on campus

Postby MajorNickmo » Sat 06 Mar 2010 12:14 am

JoeSparky wrote:I just sent a message via Facebook to Rep. Carl Wimmer with a request that he look at this thread and let me know what he thinks about this....


Rep. Wimmer and I are friends on Facebook too :-) Thanks all, for your support and for sending the word out.

Stephler wrote:The state legislatures consider Rep. Curtis Oda to be the "resident gun guy" that they turn to (Brad Daw, Margaret Dayton, and others have told me this). He may be a good person to contact as well as Becky Lockhart.


Rep. Brad Daw invited my fiance and me to sit at his table last month at the Utah County Lincoln Day Dinner. (If you live in Orem, keep re-electing him, I wish I could) Shoot, two Saturdays ago I had lunch with Senator Hatch! It's not like I'm some hood rat thug that was causing a ruckus, nor have I ever done so at that school. I know every single member of the Student Government at UVU personally and I would have no problem with the bogus threats that this officer conjured up about charging me with trespassing and having to get "the academic department and student government involved."
Last edited by MajorNickmo on Sat 06 Mar 2010 12:30 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: UVU cops detained me for OCing on campus

Postby JoeSparky » Sat 06 Mar 2010 12:15 am

MajorNickmo wrote:I didn't think I would be so intimidated by these guys! I totally wussed out. :-( I REALLY wish I had had the cajones to pull my iPhone out at the very beginning, because that was the most intimidating part. Next time I'm asked for my ID, I'm going to pull out my phone at the same time.
I showed the officers who detained me, two other campus officers business cards who I have had previous conversations with about the legality of OCing on campus and that's why the officer in the video continues that conversation. (THEY even tried to intimidate me back then with a possible "disorderly conduct" charge too, but were much more civil about it.)

An email to Mitch Vilos has been sent.
Next up, my AWESOME state senator Margaret Dayton.
Then Congressman Chaffetz, who asked me two weeks ago (not 50 yards from where this went down) "I don't know why more Utahans don't OC." (This is why! Because we get intimidated by uneducated cops.)

Ugh...So now what...should I keep OCing? And have them arrest me next time?

IF they really want to arrest me for something, should I ask them to charge me with a weapons violation (which doesn't exist :thumbsup: ) instead of disorderly conduct because "disorderly conduct" is a total trumped up, BS charge. Am I right?


I think they KNOW a weapons charge won't stick so they are trying to use the old standby Disorderly Conduct instead!
What you do is your call, but I would recommend AFTER getting the Records request filed and getting the records--- THEN FILE THE COMPLAINT!
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Re: UVU cops detained me for OCing on campus

Postby UnderratedF00l » Sat 06 Mar 2010 12:48 am

I just thought I'd point out that a LEO has every right to intimidate, harass, bluff, lie, and even threaten anyone for any reason he deems necessary. In all probability, this gentleman probably did nothing against the law or even against his department rules. However, do NOT let that stop you from filling a complaint should you choose to go that route. The point rings true that he was out of line and is certainly uninformed.

Again, you did an amazing job. Keep us updated on how this works out.
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Re: UVU cops detained me for OCing on campus

Postby Dustin WJ » Sat 06 Mar 2010 8:48 am

MajorNickmo wrote:I didn't think I would be so intimidated by these guys! I totally wussed out. :-(

I strongly disagree. You did a GREAT job and handled yourself very well. I'm sorry this happened to you. That was a tough situation and I really appreciate you sharing it with us. Also, I agree with some of the others that you should take your complaint to a higher level.

Again, don't feel like you "wussed out." You did well.
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Re: UVU cops detained me for OCing on campus

Postby GreenStreet » Sat 06 Mar 2010 9:47 am

I thought you handled yourself extremely well. I'd go right to the Chief of police at UVU and the Mark Shurtleff AG of Utah. I'd file a complaint with both of them against both cops and hand them or reference them to the videos you recorded and posted on YouTube (yes, you can legally make videos of encounters with police).

I recommend we ALL as Concealed Weapons People not only learn the law but memorize the law. You know many LEOs can have a bad day and make one's life not so pleasant. But you'd better be prepared.

Watch this video. Wrong way and right way of handling onself on several encounters with the Police. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqMjMPlXzdA&feature=fvw
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Re: UVU cops detained me for OCing on campus

Postby JTknives » Sat 06 Mar 2010 10:17 am

UtahJarhead wrote:OH HECK NO! I just watched the second video. He's threatening you with school sanctions and banning from campus altogether. Dude, you better take this as high up as you can.


thats what i thought, I'm like what, no he did not just say that did he.

man you did a good job i thought. you kept your cool and explained the law. it is great that you got video of it. I liked how you asked how thy handle MWAG calls. what you can see the gun and he is not doing anything or even touching it, we ill be right there to save you sheeple. props to you man :dancing:
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Re: UVU cops detained me for OCing on campus

Postby RustyShackleford » Sat 06 Mar 2010 11:10 am

You did a great job!!!
Everyone here needs to watch the YouTube videos...Rate them at 5 stars, Favorite them and make a comment! that is how these videos will ultimately be seen by more people.

I found this interesting what the cop said...

"I like my 2nd A right...and God help the poor ...... that tries to come and take that right away from me" ....
Well then...that makes you (cop) the poor ......!

If all it takes for a Disorderly Conduct charge is someone to call and say they are uncomforatable...there is something wrong... and something very wrong with a LEO that will pull that crap on a citizen!!!
But that is the catch all charge a cop will use when they screw-up and find out a person is not breaking a law...It is called "Saving Face".
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Re: UVU cops detained me for OCing on campus

Postby RustyShackleford » Sat 06 Mar 2010 11:13 am

JTknives wrote:
UtahJarhead wrote:OH HECK NO! I just watched the second video. He's threatening you with school sanctions and banning from campus altogether. Dude, you better take this as high up as you can.


thats what i thought, I'm like what, no he did not just say that did he.

man you did a good job i thought. you kept your cool and explained the law. it is great that you got video of it. I liked how you asked how thy handle MWAG calls. what you can see the gun and he is not doing anything or even touching it, we ill be right there to save you sheeple. props to you man :dancing:

With this statment he also threatend to get his CFP revoked..and even stated as much.
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