UVU cops detained me for OCing on campus

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Re: UVU cops detained me for OCing on campus

Postby Snaggle » Sat 06 Mar 2010 1:48 pm

Major, I agree with others and commend you on just concealing rather then taking the citation. You do not need to be a martyr! You did your best to educate the officers and you live to fight the cause another day. :thumbsup:

Is it possible for a school to deny you admission, if you chose to fight it?
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Re: UVU cops detained me for OCing on campus

Postby MajorNickmo » Sat 06 Mar 2010 5:20 pm

How should I word my complaint and my request for all the records?
Please send your advice via PM.
Last edited by MajorNickmo on Sat 06 Mar 2010 11:27 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: UVU cops detained me for OCing on campus

Postby blade55440 » Sat 06 Mar 2010 5:31 pm

Just cause folks troll the internet looking for email addies, usually if I have to put one up on a forum like this I'll do something like:

(using yours for example)

[email protected] gmail.com

some folks just go as simple as replacing @ with "at" that way any programs they use to just grab anything with the @ symbol in it hoping for an email doesn't work.
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Re: UVU cops detained me for OCing on campus

Postby JoeSparky » Sat 06 Mar 2010 6:16 pm

PM sent
Last edited by JoeSparky on Sat 06 Mar 2010 6:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: UVU cops detained me for OCing on campus

Postby DinTex » Sat 06 Mar 2010 6:17 pm

Why not try the following websites:
http://www.rcfp.org/foialetter/index.php
That one will generate a letter for you. quite neat.

If you want to get some explanation of the process and sample letters, try http://www.nist.gov/admin/foia/

I hope that helps,
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Re: UVU cops detained me for OCing on campus

Postby Ryan1971 » Sat 06 Mar 2010 7:00 pm

Major, absolutely a great job!!! Way to stick up for your rights! I commend you and the police officer did not have a clue. Please give me a phone number for the campus police supervisor and I would love to give him a call. Our state representative, Carl Wimmer, is a big gun proponent and a very down to earth individual. I would recommend you give him a call and show him the video. He is a police officer as well and I sure he will get involved. The legislature is just about done with their session so he should have time to help you. But again, good job and if you have time please give me a name and number of the campus police. Also, we should organize some type of open carry event at the campus.

Thanks,

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Re: UVU cops detained me for OCing on campus

Postby T.M.Ray » Sat 06 Mar 2010 9:44 pm

I like how the officer says "if you're buddies with Shurtleff, have him give me a call". Like he's challanging your affiliations. I beg of you to follow through with this. Don't let it slip away. I had an issue like this with UTA on the Front Runner train. They too wanted me to conceal my firearm, which you DO NOT have to. You can't even be on the train with a firearm if you don't have a permit. They finally admitted that they couldn't force someone to CC, but wanted people to do so. I got a guy from UTA Police trying to make nice with me on the phone, hoping to squash it so I wouldn't take it to Mark too. Please don't allow this to be brushed under a rug. You did a fantastic job with the IPhone. :thumbsup:
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Re: UVU cops detained me for OCing on campus

Postby jeeper » Sat 06 Mar 2010 10:47 pm

I am impressed! Hope I can handle myself as well as you did. You made very informed and valid points throughout the 13 min of video. . . not counting the time with the first officer!! Very well done. Good job avoiding a citation and not battling it in court, I hope it doesn't end there. Follow up. Great job!!
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Re: UVU cops detained me for OCing on campus

Postby MajorNickmo » Sat 06 Mar 2010 11:22 pm

Before I started recording when the second officer first got there, I mentioned the "shook Shurtleff's hand while open carrying on campus" thing and the first officer asked, "Oh yeah, when was that?" Without missing a beat I replied, "September 17th." I wish I had that on tape, it was a small victory, but it still didn't convince them. :-/
Last edited by MajorNickmo on Sun 07 Mar 2010 8:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: UVU cops detained me for OCing on campus

Postby Doctor Jenks » Sun 07 Mar 2010 9:38 am

An interesting conversation to watch and listen too. I think you did a great job; much better than I could do. As to the question of your cajones, we are all impressed...
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Re: UVU cops detained me for OCing on campus

Postby JTknives » Sun 07 Mar 2010 12:22 pm

After watching the videos and reading the posts here it got me thinking. What if you could not conceal your firearm because of how your carry rig was. I Just got a thigh rig and your videos got me thinking how would it be handled if i could not cover it up.
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Re: UVU cops detained me for OCing on campus

Postby veyec » Sun 07 Mar 2010 1:19 pm

JTknives wrote:After watching the videos and reading the posts here it got me thinking. What if you could not conceal your firearm because of how your carry rig was. I Just got a thigh rig and your videos got me thinking how would it be handled if i could not cover it up.


I guess you could carry it out of the holster and stuff it in your waistband gangsta style! Unless you weren't wearing a shirt!

Seriously though, I did have the same thought (but without the thigh rig aspect) and was wondering how nervous the cops would become if you had to draw your gun and put it somewhere else to conceal it. Brandishing charges?
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Re: UVU cops detained me for OCing on campus

Postby ProtectedBy9mm » Sun 07 Mar 2010 2:32 pm

This is why I hope the law passes that alters the DISORDERLY CONDUCT requirements. They are seeking to remove the wording, "Annoyance" from the law because obviously LEOs can apply it to ANYTHING.

http://www.le.state.ut.us/search.jsp?Se ... ubmit=Find
http://le.utah.gov/~2010/htmdoc/hbillhtm/hb0301.htm

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_14421513?IADID=Search-www.sltrib.com-www.sltrib.com

A bill that defines disorderly conduct and protects First Amendment speech was passed Wednesday by a House committee.

HB301, sponsored by Rep. Carl Wimmer, R-Herriman, seeks to remove the word "annoyance" from the current law's language to prevent arrests from being made based on vague language.

"We're repealing that piece of language," said Wimmer, a police officer, "because the term, 'annoyance,' in regards to disorderly conduct is very ambiguous. If you don't know what to charge somebody with, you charge them with disorderly conduct because it's a catch-all."

Wimmer had prepared an amendment regarding the First Amendment implications of the bill, but didn't propose it due to language in it that might conflict with certain laws already in place in various municipalities around the state.

"There are certain cities and municipalities that have time and place ordinances," Wimmer said. "The amendment, as it is drafted, may interfere with that and I certainly don't want that to occur."

The bill passed unanimously and goes to the full House for debate.


I Think the Op did a great job keeping his cool. Very impressive. it was hard for my wife and i to watch the clips without going off on 10 minute rants as to why some of the comments were even made at times by the LEOs!

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Re: UVU cops detained me for OCing on campus

Postby abrian8 » Sun 07 Mar 2010 4:16 pm

Well done! :dancing:

I agree with the masses file complaints and get the AG "to give me call" to cop two in order to set him strait.
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Re: UVU cops detained me for OCing on campus

Postby Scott » Sun 07 Mar 2010 5:55 pm

Congratulations, you did great. Those videos give us all a lot to think about. I don't know if you have posted them to the national forums yet but I suggest posting them in every forum you can find in the country. Let's make that officer a "celebrity" as we educate everyone about our rights.

Man, things are all turned around!

Seems to me the disorderly conduct charge should be made against the person who made the MWAG call. Such a caller is similar to the person in a crowded theater who falsely yells "Fire!" If a caller is so nervous that he/she makes a MWAG report and the MWAG us fully law abiding then it is the MWAG caller that is causing the disorderly conduct. Just because the caller does not know the gun laws is not an excuse. That's what the judge tells me, ignorance is no excuse.

Maybe the call receiver (the operator) should be charged as an accessory to the disorderly conduct charge if they do not qualify the call and interrogate the caller to properly determine if there is an actual crime (i.e. brandishing, threatening, drawing the gun, etc.).

Finally, if the cops do show up I suppose they can legally determine if you have a permit while on school grounds (since you are breaking the law if you don't). Once it is determined that you do have a permit and therefore are not breaking any law--any further detaining, threatening, arguing, etc. while in a public place with other "innocents" around ought to be cause for the LEO to be charged with disorderly conduct for causing an unnecessary annoyance in public.
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