What did I miss?

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Re: What did I miss?

Postby jfwright1955 » Tue 24 Jan 2017 9:57 am

Aad Geordie wrote:In response (partially) to Muddy’s post a couple above…

I see Muddy's point about the drop in activity level plus the ever-present availability of almost all information. However, I don't think that a forum necessarily has to be constantly buzzing to still be of great value. I think there's a very different kind of value in a local community forum versus the huge international ones. I think it's okay for a forum to just cruise along relatively quietly between occasional flurries of traffic—we've all got lives that pull us in different directions.

I was 58 before I ever picked up a handgun and, while I would consider myself modestly comfortable researching information on the internet, the anonymity and remoteness of web sites and large national forums eventually falls short. This forum seemed to bring everything into a more “real” context for me—I’d like to think others may have had similar experiences. I’ve attended 16 local defensive firearm classes of various kinds (pistol, rifle, knife, dry-fire). At every one of them, I’ve met people from this forum. The forum is somewhat of a gel that keeps us connected—not saying it’s the only way to do that, just that it does seem to function well in that regard, despite the occasional minor issues.

Let’s also not forget the tremendous service to the community that has been provided around October/November each year for the past five years (maybe six?) through DeWitt’s organization of, and many others’ participation in, the annual free CFP class.

So, is it dying? Personally, I don’t think so (just my opinion, of course)—I think it’s just quieter than it used to be. I’d be very sad if it were to die, or to move to a social media platform—which I think would inexorably change the nature (some may like that, of course—each to their own :D )

[RaRah/OFF] :wink:
Geoff.

Well said, Geoff. After reading your posts I often find myself thinking "ditto... what he said".

For sure the local community and camaraderie is what appeals to me for the reasons you mentioned. With few exceptions the words of advice from the majority of the forum members can be taken to the bank.

As you and muddy mentioned, I've also tried other forums. However, given they are usually balanced with members from other States and sometimes international members, which aren't bad things by any means, but they do seem to get diluted because topics are covered in generalities or I often find myself thinking "that's not applicable to me". Rarely do I think that whilst reading UCC postings. We have some very knowledgeable members and I enjoy reading their posts, especially regarding Utah laws applicable to firearms.

In one form or another -- and hopefully in its current format-- we, as a community, are more than capable of keeping the forum going and viewed as a respected resource by others.

If tapehoser is willing to continue moderating and doesn't mind stepping in at the first onset of misbehavior to moderate before things get out of hand as they recently have, then we stand a good chance of being able to forge ahead and perpetuate the sharing and distribution of meaningful information. If not, this forum will continue to wither, I'm afraid.
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No one should make decisions for us when it comes to guns and gun carry. If we do things we're not comfortable with because someone told us it's 'right' it becomes a distraction in an event where clarity and simplicity is needed.
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Re: What did I miss?

Postby Karl » Tue 24 Jan 2017 11:54 am

m&p40 wrote:I have not been on the forum for quite some time, and just recently returned... I notice that this forum seems to be quite...how do you say... lacking? Where did everybody go? Where are all the comments? I remember the days when this thing was quite hopping with so many discussions that I could never keep up.... not it seems like I have to go back 6 months to see "new" comments...

Can someone please tell me what I missed? :)

:?:

There are some people cheerleading for state constitutional carry in Utah while they misinterpret the 2nd Amendment and fail to think about the adverse consequences, known as "pro's and con's." You may have missed that.

There is one person suggesting the Clark County now respects Utah CFP's while another says not so and check it yourself. Neither has provided a link to a citation.

With the advent (no pun intended) of Dylann Roof there has been discussion of CCW in church, which of course the LDS do not permit but the Catholics do. Some have confessed (no pun intended) to CCW in LDS churches anyway. Not my problem.

And there is an Open Carry / Concealed Carry (optional) dinner coming up at the end of Jan. I normally carry concealed. Pro's and con's to both. I think I'll skip the dinner since the O/C crowd does not like to be reminded of the pro's and con's. I've noticed this about the Nevada forums too -- it's all rah rah open carry for them as well.
Last edited by Karl on Tue 24 Jan 2017 4:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: What did I miss?

Postby Karl » Tue 24 Jan 2017 11:56 am

sypher wrote:No :ack: ... I'm not exactly anti-Facebook per se, but I've avoided it this long!

I though FB really hates guns ?!

I suspect Zuckerberg would come after you personally if you tried using his website for gun purposes.

Just a guess.
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Re: What did I miss?

Postby Aad Geordie » Tue 24 Jan 2017 1:05 pm

:roll:
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Re: What did I miss?

Postby sypher » Tue 24 Jan 2017 3:48 pm

I agree with Geoff and John. I've moved out of state and haven't found a suitable replacement for UCC! I still hang out here as the information is still mostly relevant. Beyond that, I have met numerous people from UCC at functions organized here (dinners, DeWitt's class, Mark and Brant's class, to name a few). Everyone I've had the pleasure of meeting has been a real class act, and has been more than willing to share their time, knowledge and equipment without expecting anything in return.
Right now I don't have the means to help out financially, but if we move, pm me the forwarding address (gotta keep the riff raff out :bat: ) and I'll do what I can when my situation changes.
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Re: What did I miss?

Postby bagpiper » Tue 24 Jan 2017 6:03 pm

Folks, if there is any interest in setting up a new chat group somewhere, I'd love to see it.

I'd prefer to avoid Facebook.

Clearly, we need some moderation as one new member really pushed things out of hand recently after having received the usual, very warm welcome to the forum. I'm guilty of responding to him in frustration in a way that is beneath the usual standards of the group and I apologize to the members for doing so, even though I think the target of my response fully deserved everything I typed and more. The rest of you deserve better.

I'm watching OCDO die from lack of even-handed moderation and a couple of trolls / insider's club members being allowed to drive away civilized members. There is great value to a forum like this. Is there any way to crawl the forum to automatically copy over the history here to a new forum?

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Re: What did I miss?

Postby gravedancer » Tue 24 Jan 2017 6:06 pm

m&p40 wrote:I have not been on the forum for quite some time, and just recently returned... I notice that this forum seems to be quite...how do you say... lacking? Where did everybody go? Where are all the comments? I remember the days when this thing was quite hopping with so many discussions that I could never keep up.... not it seems like I have to go back 6 months to see "new" comments...

Can someone please tell me what I missed? :)

:?:



Paul decided to sell the forum, without giving any of the existing forum members a chance to buy it or anything else.
New forum ownership never makes an appearance except to randomly delete (without notice) posts that they might find offensive.
Lack of moderation seems to attract forum trolls like a pile of raw meat attracts flies in the summer.
All of the above cause many longtime members to leave rather than deal with the BS.
RIP UCC
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Re: What did I miss?

Postby gravedancer » Tue 24 Jan 2017 6:08 pm

bagpiper wrote:Folks, if there is any interest in setting up a new chat group somewhere, I'd love to see it.

I'd prefer to avoid Facebook.

Clearly, we need some moderation as one new member really pushed things out of hand recently after having received the usual, very warm welcome to the forum. I'm guilty of responding to him in frustration in a way that is beneath the usual standards of the group and I apologize to the members for doing so, even though I think the target of my response fully deserved everything I typed and more. The rest of you deserve better.

I'm watching OCDO die from lack of even-handed moderation and a couple of trolls / insider's club members being allowed to drive away civilized members. There is great value to a forum like this. Is there any way to crawl the forum to automatically copy over the history here to a new forum?

Charles


Ive been thinking lately about doing just that. I have the knowledge and experience to host and moderate a forum. I on several occasions offered my help (or even free hosting) to previous ownership but was always rebuffed. Unfortunately without being given access to the forum database or at least a backup copy, it would be impossible to migrate over all the posts without a very labor intensive effort to copy/paste everything manually. But it would be possible to set up an alternate site and move over any truly important material that we wanted to move.
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Re: What did I miss?

Postby Snurd » Tue 24 Jan 2017 6:23 pm

bagpiper wrote:Folks, if there is any interest in setting up a new chat group somewhere, I'd love to see it.

I'd prefer to avoid Facebook.

Clearly, we need some moderation as one new member really pushed things out of hand recently after having received the usual, very warm welcome to the forum. I'm guilty of responding to him in frustration in a way that is beneath the usual standards of the group and I apologize to the members for doing so, even though I think the target of my response fully deserved everything I typed and more. The rest of you deserve better.

I'm watching OCDO die from lack of even-handed moderation and a couple of trolls / insider's club members being allowed to drive away civilized members. There is great value to a forum like this. Is there any way to crawl the forum to automatically copy over the history here to a new forum?

Charles

M&P40 is currently setting up a new forum. It's in its infancy so there isn't much to see. No website has been established yet, but it's in the works.

Unfortunately almost all the Mods have disappeared. Tapehoser is the only one I've seen post in many, many months. I'm not sure if he has the ability to give others Mod powers, or adding us to the Posse. I'm on here quite a bit and would accept one of those rolls if it was offered.


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Re: What did I miss?

Postby gravedancer » Tue 24 Jan 2017 8:12 pm

Snurd wrote:
bagpiper wrote:Folks, if there is any interest in setting up a new chat group somewhere, I'd love to see it.

I'd prefer to avoid Facebook.

Clearly, we need some moderation as one new member really pushed things out of hand recently after having received the usual, very warm welcome to the forum. I'm guilty of responding to him in frustration in a way that is beneath the usual standards of the group and I apologize to the members for doing so, even though I think the target of my response fully deserved everything I typed and more. The rest of you deserve better.

I'm watching OCDO die from lack of even-handed moderation and a couple of trolls / insider's club members being allowed to drive away civilized members. There is great value to a forum like this. Is there any way to crawl the forum to automatically copy over the history here to a new forum?

Charles

M&P40 is currently setting up a new forum. It's in its infancy so there isn't much to see. No website has been established yet, but it's in the works.

Unfortunately almost all the Mods have disappeared. Tapehoser is the only one I've seen post in many, many months. I'm not sure if he has the ability to give others Mod powers, or adding us to the Posse. I'm on here quite a bit and would accept one of those rolls if it was offered.


Sent from iSnurd


Im talking to M&P about consolidating efforts, since ive already purchased a domain name, and set up advertising free hosting for a forum there.
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Re: What did I miss?

Postby bumpylight » Tue 24 Jan 2017 9:01 pm

Might I offer any assistance in this endeavor? If nothing else, I'll put forward the minor observation that Kimsufi, a French company, boasts astoundingly cheap unmanaged-server deals on last-generation hardware that nonetheless is plenty powerful for small-scale internet operations such as local forums with specialized audiences. Kimsufi has been around a while with a very interesting business model that has tens of thousands of bare-bones servers bubbling and popping in their own juices inside cooled, power-regulated shipping containers. Technical support is bare-bones as well, but the company's do-it-yourself service offerings have been amazingly popular.

I'd suggest looking primarily at the company's Canadian data center and not its French data centers for obvious reasons. You might know Kimsufi better as a relatively obscure brand name under the OVH umbrella. Obviously, database and website backups to remote spindles must be handled separately, but that's true for the great majority of shared-hosting services anyway. Frankly, at the prices that Kimsufi charges, it'd be awfully tempting to simply rent another server, perhaps in the same data center if geographical separation isn't a big concern, to serve as the backup depository. 8)

BTW, I'm embarrassed to admit that I've been slow to get back to making the most of a server I started renting from them a little while back for experimental purposes. At €9.99 a month for their "KS-2B" French server with an Atom™ N2800 CPU, 4GB of RAM and a 40GB SSD, it's hardly been worth worrying about the cost. They do have a nice automated system for installing and reinstalling various Linux- and FreeBSD-based operating systems! :D

https://kimsufi.com/en/servers.xml
https://kimsufi.com/us/en/about-ks/
https://ovh.com/us/news/cp1355.the_ovh_ ... ed_servers
https://lafibre.info/ovh-datacenter/dat ... roubaix-2/
http://datacenterknowledge.com/archives ... ta-center/
https://kiloroot.com/dedicated-hosting- ... he-rescue/

P.S. I can almost feel little devil horns sprouting on my forehead as I write this passage, but the chosen forum software might work best if it includes the ability to "shadowban" especially annoying users. I feel filthy enough as it is for having spelt out that twisted word, so I'll leave it to the reader to Google its full nastiness. Third-party plugins shouldn't be overlooked either. :twisted:
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Re: What did I miss?

Postby althor » Tue 24 Jan 2017 9:48 pm

I must be bad. I had to look it up and I find it very amusing and would not have any problems doing it.
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Re: What did I miss?

Postby gravedancer » Tue 24 Jan 2017 10:12 pm

bumpylight wrote:Might I offer any assistance in this endeavor? If nothing else, I'll put forward the minor observation that Kimsufi, a French company, boasts astoundingly cheap unmanaged-server deals on last-generation hardware that nonetheless is plenty powerful for small-scale internet operations such as local forums with specialized audiences. Kimsufi has been around a while with a very interesting business model that has tens of thousands of bare-bones servers bubbling and popping in their own juices inside cooled, power-regulated shipping containers. Technical support is bare-bones as well, but the company's do-it-yourself service offerings have been amazingly popular.

I'd suggest looking primarily at the company's Canadian data center and not its French data centers for obvious reasons. You might know Kimsufi better as a relatively obscure brand name under the OVH umbrella. Obviously, database and website backups to remote spindles must be handled separately, but that's true for the great majority of shared-hosting services anyway. Frankly, at the prices that Kimsufi charges, it'd be awfully tempting to simply rent another server, perhaps in the same data center if geographical separation isn't a big concern, to serve as the backup depository. 8)

BTW, I'm embarrassed to admit that I've been slow to get back to making the most of a server I started renting from them a little while back for experimental purposes. At €9.99 a month for their "KS-2B" French server with an Atom™ N2800 CPU, 4GB of RAM and a 40GB SSD, it's hardly been worth worrying about the cost. They do have a nice automated system for installing and reinstalling various Linux- and FreeBSD-based operating systems! :D

https://kimsufi.com/en/servers.xml
https://kimsufi.com/us/en/about-ks/
https://ovh.com/us/news/cp1355.the_ovh_ ... ed_servers
https://lafibre.info/ovh-datacenter/dat ... roubaix-2/
http://datacenterknowledge.com/archives ... ta-center/
https://kiloroot.com/dedicated-hosting- ... he-rescue/

P.S. I can almost feel little devil horns sprouting on my forehead as I write this passage, but the chosen forum software might work best if it includes the ability to "shadowban" especially annoying users. I feel filthy enough as it is for having spelt out that twisted word, so I'll leave it to the reader to Google its full nastiness. Third-party plugins shouldn't be overlooked either. :twisted:


I have a web design & computer consulting business that I used to do full time, but which has been mostly a hobby for the past 8 or 10 years, but I had a high-level account with hostmonster from that that allows me to add subdomains at no additional monthly cost. The only cost I incurred was the price of registering the domain, etc and thats already done.
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Re: What did I miss?

Postby bumpylight » Wed 25 Jan 2017 8:00 am

I'm not conversant with the world of web scraping, but a Google search for "phpBB scraper"shows ideas that might lead somewhere useful.

http://theabsolute.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=7230

One does wonder how the quiescent current owners of the board would feel about this, but it's probably safe enough for individual members to retrieve their own posting histories to be shared with the upcoming board. After all, they do retain the copyrights to their own past writings. Using a throwaway account for the actual retrieval might be wise in case an automated anti-scraping plugin is lurking in the background. I have no idea how difficult it would be to add such saved posting histories to the forum streams of another board setup, but it's a thought.

gravedancer wrote:
bagpiper wrote:[....]

[....] Is there any way to crawl the forum to automatically copy over the history here to a new forum?


[....] Unfortunately without being given access to the forum database or at least a backup copy, it would be impossible to migrate over all the posts without a very labor intensive effort to copy/paste everything manually. But it would be possible to set up an alternate site and move over any truly important material that we wanted to move.
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Re: What did I miss?

Postby Paul » Wed 25 Jan 2017 10:15 am

People can second guess my decision to sell and wish all sorts of things about how the forum was managed previously. Yes it is true there were people who volunteered to help and were "rebuffed". Its not as simple as some would think however. And not all volunteering truly helps in all situations. For instance having the forum hosted on someones personal server in their basement didn't exactly seem like a safe bet to me when I owned the forum. It is true I didn't "advertise" my desire to sell or seek buyers on the forum. My primary interest frankly was first to get the money back I had paid for the forum as there was an investment there. And that opportunity kind of fell into my lap. And I simply didn't have the time I once did. Second I wanted to sell to someone I thought would improve the forum. I truly thought the new owners would have the experience, resources, and interest to achieve that goal. Clearly they haven't had the interest.
You can't steal the threads or data as some suggested and just move it over to another forum. That content of the forum belongs to the owners of the forum. So you better put that thought out of your mind. Anyone is welcome to start any forum they want anywhere at any time. And enjoy all the headaches and challenges that come with that. I wish those who try the best.
We can continue to hope that at some point the new owners get involved. I just emailed them and suggested they really look at this thread. I hope they do.
And last we can just continue to keep the forum what it is. It isn't perfect. But it's pretty darn good. And there are still a couple of us old timers around that can moderate discussions and still do. As was pointed out by others, many forums are sinking. Participation is down on many. But that doesn't mean this forum isn't still an incredible resource. And why abandon it just because the new owners are not actively involved. I guess I don't see how a new forum is going to be better.
I've seen other forums try to suck people over to new ones. I've never seen it work though. So I suggest we just simply keep the forum as it is and enjoy it for what it is.
There are many like myself that don't post as much as we used to. That doesn't mean we aren't here and don't support it. It may just mean we aren't interested in making the exact same point to the 200th new member asking the same question. Or maybe we don't have the time we once did. Whatever it is I don't see it mattering. The forum is still awesome! Yeah maybe all your super technical geeky forum expectations aren't met, but welcome to life :) And maybe one of you needs to reach out to the new owners and express your interest in getting involved and helping fix the problems. You never know what they will say. So give it a shot. Worse that can happen is things just stay as they are. Which again I still think is pretty awesome compared to the other garbage out there.
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