help is truly minutes away, except when......

Please post your real life stories where carrying for self-defense has made a difference.

Re: help is truly minutes away, except when......

Postby TIinSLC » Sat 10 Nov 2012 7:29 pm

This is the best thing i've ever read on this site. :lolbang:

Good for you! :thumbsup:
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Re: help is truly minutes away, except when......

Postby Semi-AutoFan » Thu 10 Jan 2013 11:32 pm

As far as I understand the law CFP is for the protection of people, not possessions. So if the weapon was fired in defense of the belongings in the vehicle then you could get in a lot of legal trouble. Which to me just means that you make sure and tell 911 that you have a gun while on the phone. Hoping for the cops to come faster.
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Re: help is truly minutes away, except when......

Postby meuxse » Fri 11 Jan 2013 5:47 am

I had no cfp, nor do I now. I didnt fire my weapon. I never wanted to. I just wanted the bg's out of my vehicle. I understand the legal backlash that can occur from doing such a thing. Anyone who has ever called pleasant grove police for any reason knows that unless you are at one of the two walkers gas stations you are gonna be a while waiting for "help". My vehicle and my tools in it are my lively hood. Take them and you might as well take my house, car (obviously), food and my very ability to maintain my meager life. Not gonna happen without a little fight from me.

Again, I am well aware of the legal consequences that may come from such actions. I am also all to familiar with what homeless feels like. I will take my chances on my property any day.
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Re: help is truly minutes away, except when......

Postby UtahJarhead » Fri 11 Jan 2013 7:51 am

meuxse wrote:I had no cfp, nor do I now. I didnt fire my weapon. I never wanted to. I just wanted the bg's out of my vehicle. I understand the legal backlash that can occur from doing such a thing. Anyone who has ever called pleasant grove police for any reason knows that unless you are at one of the two walkers gas stations you are gonna be a while waiting for "help". My vehicle and my tools in it are my lively hood. Take them and you might as well take my house, car (obviously), food and my very ability to maintain my meager life. Not gonna happen without a little fight from me.

Again, I am well aware of the legal consequences that may come from such actions. I am also all to familiar with what homeless feels like. I will take my chances on my property any day.

:thumbsup:

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Re: help is truly minutes away, except when......

Postby Pistol Pete » Sat 12 Jan 2013 6:53 am

Officer the car thieves had what appeared to be a gun or knive in their hands, fearing for my life I pulled my gun took cover and told them to drop their weapons! What they had no weapons? Oh, so that silver object was my Crecent Wrench? Dang I thought it was a gun, it's dark out here, heck he was pointing it right at me. Whats that officer? You would have shot him if that was you? Oh I would be careful that ole Sam Gil is after Police involved shootings, and he will have your badge. Anyways.....
Is that how it happened? If not Pepper Spray them, taser them, if you want to stop them. Or beat them down, the State law states, you can protect your property with force "other than Deadly force."
Or get a good description and follow them from a safe distance. Or File a claim and get some new tools you been wanting anyways. Just don't pull your gun to protect your property, if there are more then 2 people present & no cameras around no anti-gun nieghbors looking out the window. Wait did I just say that out loud? Ha ha ha
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Re: help is truly minutes away, except when......

Postby RustyShackleford » Sat 12 Jan 2013 10:12 am

You really should be able to defend your personal property with deadly force. Every time they steal something you own, they are stealing a certain amount of your life that it took to earn that amount of money to purchase the property. And you are not going to get that time back.
Stealing someone's ability to make a living (tools)....If I was on a jury I would not convict anyone that acted to defend their property.
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Re: help is truly minutes away, except when......

Postby faydee » Sat 12 Jan 2013 12:07 pm

RustyShackleford wrote:You really should be able to defend your personal property with deadly force. Every time they steal something you own, they are stealing a certain amount of your life that it took to earn that amount of money to purchase the property. And you are not going to get that time back.
Stealing someone's ability to make a living (tools)....If I was on a jury I would not convict anyone that acted to defend their property.

well if you shot someone over tools (and that was the defense) i would convict you every time... property can be replaced and i agree with the no deadly force... if you did that in the jury you would not be following the judges instructions cause in his instructions he would tell you the law and sum up the evidence for you.
Using the lessons I've gleaned from Zombie movies, I would recommend you have at least one round of ammunition per person currently living within a 30 mile radius of your location...

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Re: help is truly minutes away, except when......

Postby meuxse » Sat 12 Jan 2013 12:38 pm

faydee wrote:
RustyShackleford wrote:You really should be able to defend your personal property with deadly force. Every time they steal something you own, they are stealing a certain amount of your life that it took to earn that amount of money to purchase the property. And you are not going to get that time back.
Stealing someone's ability to make a living (tools)....If I was on a jury I would not convict anyone that acted to defend their property.

well if you shot someone over tools (and that was the defense) i would convict you every time... property can be replaced and i agree with the no deadly force... if you did that in the jury you would not be following the judges instructions cause in his instructions he would tell you the law and sum up the evidence for you.


So..... let's just say that I beat them to a bloody pulp but don't actually kill them? Deadly force? Would you convict me of a crime then? Keep in mind I am not a small individual. Where do I get to protect my property and not be charged with a crime? I will never sit by helplessly and let what is mine be taken from me while I watch. Insurance may replace some of it, what about what is not replaced and therefore prohibits or hinders my ability to work to sustain my life? They say, "an eye for an eye leaves us all blind". I would like to think people would get the hint after a few times and stop taking from others no matter what the object was. I know I like my "eyes".
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Re: help is truly minutes away, except when......

Postby JoeSparky » Sat 12 Jan 2013 7:15 pm

At this point.... "Officer, the thieves/thief attacked me and I was forced to defend myself. Yes, I'd love to make a statement AFTER I've consulted with my attorney. Here is his business card and I've already contacted him!"

This is after the thief draws back with the heavy blunt object (my adjustable wrench/hammer/impact tool) and I feared for my life or serious injury!
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Re: help is truly minutes away, except when......

Postby RustyShackleford » Sun 13 Jan 2013 10:58 am

faydee wrote:
RustyShackleford wrote:You really should be able to defend your personal property with deadly force. Every time they steal something you own, they are stealing a certain amount of your life that it took to earn that amount of money to purchase the property. And you are not going to get that time back.
Stealing someone's ability to make a living (tools)....If I was on a jury I would not convict anyone that acted to defend their property.

well if you shot someone over tools (and that was the defense) i would convict you every time... property can be replaced and i agree with the no deadly force... if you did that in the jury you would not be following the judges instructions cause in his instructions he would tell you the law and sum up the evidence for you.

There is this little thing called Jury nullification that trumps All Judge's instruction and/or Laws. It is in our Constitution.
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Re: help is truly minutes away, except when......

Postby UtahJarhead » Sun 13 Jan 2013 11:03 am

Judge's instructions mean nothing. Your sole single job as a juror is to decide if the person in question did something deserving of punishment by the public. If that means you must decide something directly against the instructions, then that's what you do.
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Re: help is truly minutes away, except when......

Postby faydee » Sun 13 Jan 2013 11:20 am

RustyShackleford wrote:
faydee wrote:
RustyShackleford wrote:You really should be able to defend your personal property with deadly force. Every time they steal something you own, they are stealing a certain amount of your life that it took to earn that amount of money to purchase the property. And you are not going to get that time back.
Stealing someone's ability to make a living (tools)....If I was on a jury I would not convict anyone that acted to defend their property.

well if you shot someone over tools (and that was the defense) i would convict you every time... property can be replaced and i agree with the no deadly force... if you did that in the jury you would not be following the judges instructions cause in his instructions he would tell you the law and sum up the evidence for you.

There is this little thing called Jury nullification that trumps All Judge's instruction and/or Laws. It is in our Constitution.

which amendment is that?
Using the lessons I've gleaned from Zombie movies, I would recommend you have at least one round of ammunition per person currently living within a 30 mile radius of your location...

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Re: help is truly minutes away, except when......

Postby UtahJarhead » Sun 13 Jan 2013 11:46 am

Not everything is in an amendment. ;) Just sayin!

However, jury nullification is not a Constitutional item.
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Re: help is truly minutes away, except when......

Postby UtahJarhead » Sun 13 Jan 2013 11:57 am

In fact, jury nullification is just the term given after the fact to a particular action.

Our double jeopardy limitations mean once an acquittal is achieved, the person is innocent. When you pair that with the fact that a juror cannot be punished for returning a specific ruling, you have the possibility of jury nullification. The nullification portion of the term means that the action is frequently used to nullify the effects of a standing law.
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Re: help is truly minutes away, except when......

Postby faydee » Sun 13 Jan 2013 12:13 pm

UtahJarhead wrote:Not everything is in an amendment. ;) Just sayin!

However, jury nullification is not a Constitutional item.

I know not everything is an amendment and I know its not in the Constitution UT or USA. I was calling him out on that... can't come in here saying "it is in our Constitution" when it is a common law practice about juries that had sense enough to see someone doesnt need punished...

I still stand by you shoot some one over tools i'll convict you every time... shooting someone in self defense is a whole different story plus what JoeSparky said is spot on...
Using the lessons I've gleaned from Zombie movies, I would recommend you have at least one round of ammunition per person currently living within a 30 mile radius of your location...

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