Online Training -- Is It Legal???

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Online Training -- Is It Legal???

Postby Uinta Firearms » Sun 01 Mar 2015 9:53 pm

I was doing some research online while revising my Utah Concealed Carry Course and came across a company that is advertising Utah Concealed Carry Online Courses. I didn't think this was legal, but thought I'd ask here before going further with this matter. I'm providing a link so everybody can see what I'm talking about.

http://www.onlinecarrytraining.com/utah ... -carry-law
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Re: Online Training -- Is It Legal???

Postby Snurd » Sun 01 Mar 2015 10:04 pm

I'm not a CFP instructor, and I haven't checked in your question, but I did notice a nice error that he has. He says that the resident Utah permit requires a range session. That's not true. Some instructors require it, but it's not required by the state.


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Re: Online Training -- Is It Legal???

Postby glock fan » Sun 01 Mar 2015 10:35 pm

Training must be done IN PERSON. Online training is a violation of BCI policy and will result in adverse action to the instructor.

Live fire is NOT required by BCI, but MAY be imposed by BCI Certified instructors at their discretion.
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Re: Online Training -- Is It Legal???

Postby Uinta Firearms » Sun 01 Mar 2015 10:50 pm

I'll admit that I didn't even look at anything on the page beyond the "Online Training". I thought Utah required in person training. That's why I posted the question. I'll send BCI an email tomorrow evening after I get home from work. Thanks for the confirmation.
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Re: Online Training -- Is It Legal???

Postby quychang » Sun 01 Mar 2015 11:56 pm

Just out of a sense of perversity, I read a few of their FAQ's. Besides being poorly written with glaring proof reading errors, they require that after you watch their video you take a test and pass with 70% or higher. Another error. In fact, I won't enumerate them here, but I noticed a number of errors, and I didn't look all that closely. Yes, I think an email bringing them to the BCI's attention would definitely be in order.

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Re: Online Training -- Is It Legal???

Postby glock fan » Mon 02 Mar 2015 1:11 am

Wait, there's a test? :huh: Report them to BCI. They're eff'n things up for the rest of us!
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Re: Online Training -- Is It Legal???

Postby Snaggle » Mon 02 Mar 2015 8:56 am

They are playing a Jedi mind trick on people. This is for the Virginia non-resident permit that had reciprocity with Utah. They do not get an actual Utah permit. Several of my students found that out the hard way. This same company has also or still does this using the Arizona permit. Peeps just don't read the fine print and think they are getting a Utah permit. False advertising in my opinion.


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Re: Online Training -- Is It Legal???

Postby Uinta Firearms » Mon 02 Mar 2015 2:06 pm

I'll look again, but I think Virginia requires an in person course too. I have both the Utah resident and Virginia nonresident permits. I'll look into this further when I get home.
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Re: Online Training -- Is It Legal???

Postby Doctor Jenks » Mon 02 Mar 2015 2:06 pm

This website is misleading in the extreme. It clearly claims (falsely) that its online course is acceptable training when applying for a Utah CFP. They go on and on about how you will be able to carry in Utah, and apply for a Utah CFP, then slip in that you are actually getting a Virginia non resident permit, but you will be able to carry in Utah through the use of an AZ permit (wait a minute.. I thought I was getting a Utah errr... Virginia non resident permit???).

Bottom line, after just a few minutes looking at their website I say they aren't misleading people, they're just plain lying.
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Re: Online Training -- Is It Legal???

Postby AlanM » Mon 02 Mar 2015 3:18 pm

Virginia does not require an "in person" course. The on line courses are perfectly legal for getting either a non-resident VA CHP or a resident one. (different issuing agencies)
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Online Training -- Is It Legal???

Postby Snaggle » Mon 02 Mar 2015 6:19 pm

I filled a former complaint with BCI when they first open their website. As mentioned before, they hosed a couple of my students. An investigator looked at it and said there was nothing they could do. Bummer!


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Re: Online Training -- Is It Legal???

Postby Uinta Firearms » Mon 02 Mar 2015 7:55 pm

AlanM wrote:Virginia does not require an "in person" course. The on line courses are perfectly legal for getting either a non-resident VA CHP or a resident one. (different issuing agencies)

Virginia was my first ccw and I had just purchased my first firearm, so I was a n00b when I went through the Virginia process. I do recall my course was in person and included a shooting session. The course fee was $40. I'm familiar with the difference between the issuing agencies. Residents get their permits through the city whereas nonresidents go through the state police. I had to run through those circles because VSP initially wouldn't send me the packet because I had a Virginia mailing address. The City of Chesapeake wouldn't accept my packet because I maintained my Utah residency.
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Re: Online Training -- Is It Legal???

Postby dewittdj » Mon 02 Mar 2015 8:07 pm

I'm on pretty good terms with the BCI staff. I'll send them an email and the link.

Email sent.

If they providing Utah CFP instructor certification stamps for their online course then they are in violation of BCI's training requirements:

Concealed firearm instructors must make certain that all applicants who attend their courses receive proper in-person training within the guidelines prescribed by law. The Bureau has collected the following information to assist instructors in preparing or adding to their course outlines. This curriculum is the minimum training required by the Bureau and must be provided to all applicants who desire to obtain a Utah concealed firearm permit as required by state statute, U.C.A. § 53-5-704(10). The Bureau supports instructors adding any additional firearms training and or material, including a live fire exercise. If there are any questions, do not hesitate to contact the Bureau of Criminal Identification at 801-965-4445.

THE GOAL IS TO ELIMINATE INCIDENTS BY PROVIDING EXCELLENT TRAINING!

To properly teach the Utah concealed firearm permit course, in person instruction consisting of a minimum of 4 hours is recommended. This time frame should consist of course related material not to include extra services such as fingerprinting, photos, etc. If a certified instructor chooses to teach multi state permits, the Utah permit should be completed separately. This policy ensures the Utah concealed firearm permit course is taught in its entirety without intermixing different states interpretations of the laws and rules governed within. Please follow these statutory guidelines as you instruct!


From their application page:

Application.jpg
Application.jpg (17.17 KiB) Viewed 5704 times


It would appear to be dishonesty in their advertising.
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Re: Online Training -- Is It Legal???

Postby dewittdj » Mon 02 Mar 2015 8:15 pm

It would almost be worth the $70.00 to sign up, take the course with a [Utah] application submitted and see if they send a Utah Instructor CFP certification stamp.

If they don't send a Utah certification stamp, then stop payment on the VISA and report fraud to the card agency, citing that one did not receive what was advertised.

If they do send a Utah certification stamp, then forward the instructor info to BCI and have the permits issued under that stamp revoked and pull that instructor(s)'s license and permit.
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Re: Online Training -- Is It Legal???

Postby glock fan » Tue 03 Mar 2015 9:21 am

Got a reply from BCI. they've been checking these people out for a while. Nobody at that "company" is a BCI Certified Instructor. BCI Agent said they are offering a Virginia non - resident permit that would be recognized by Utah.

Next step is to see if Virginia allows online classes.
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