Open Carry vs. Concealed Carry Poll

Discuss issues regarding open carry.

Open or Concealed: How do you carry?

Always concealed
261
44%
Mostly concealed, but sometimes open
217
37%
Concealed about half the time and open the other half
35
6%
Mostly open, but sometimes concealed
57
10%
Always open
15
3%
Always open and unloaded because I don't intend to get a CFP
6
1%
 
Total votes : 591

Re: Open Carry vs. Concealed Carry Poll

Postby The Human Paraquat » Sat 09 Feb 2013 1:14 am

I voted always open/Utah unloaded as I do not intend to get my CFP.
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Re: Open Carry vs. Concealed Carry Poll

Postby jfwright1955 » Sat 23 Feb 2013 9:01 am

I carry concealed 100% of the time even at home. I'm a creature of habit and consistency, which means for me I do it so it's second nature and one less thing I need to think about no matter where I go or what I do. But, as I usually say, because this is right for me doesn't mean it's right for you so do what you feel most comfortable doing.
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Re: Open Carry vs. Concealed Carry Poll

Postby Jonny Salsman » Tue 23 Apr 2013 2:41 pm

I mostly conceal, but i open carry in my home or hiking (I'm up rock canyon in provo weekly if you see me). If i decide to shop somewhere that i know is pro gun and if im already OC'ing, i'll continue to OC.
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Re: Open Carry vs. Concealed Carry Poll

Postby Aarius » Sat 04 May 2013 9:58 pm

I was happy to participate in this poll and not that surprised at seeing the results so far. Of the 530 votes so far 229, or 43% voted ALWAYS CONCEALED while 197, or 37% voted MOSTLY CONCEALED, BUT SOMETIMES OPEN. I am one of 15, or 2% who voted ALWAYS OPEN.

I must consider also that the poll is likely not very objective. I see it as asking the choir if they like hymns. I could also be guilty of a skewed perspective with 28 years of seeing things from an LEO perspective. It is also acknowledged that not all LEO's today or from 1972 on would have the same perspective and as many different opinions can be found there as here or across the nation as a whole for that matter.

In a society where everyone has his and her opinion and with it a well honed soapbox to go with it I am amazed any kind of "standard" has been or could be reached under any circumstances. Therefore I declare that I am a product of my environment much of which is an environment I have chosen and not one forced upon me. I am the result of all the influences I have ever known from which I have made choices to pick and choose those that fit comfortably into an area I not only can live with but in matter-of-fact ways have molded my character. I also know that character is who and what we are while reputation is merely what others think we are. I am convinced so because most of what we learn is by visual means and contributing to the reputation portion can be a life altering decision.

One small example out of all that life can present is herewith offered and I will leave the proponents of "carry but conceal it, or sometimes open" to their own opinions.

When I was in law enforcement I always made it a point to look like what i was. I absolutely intended to visually communicate that I not only had pride in what I did but that my appearance communicated a degree of authority and a consideration among most that I knew what I was, what to do, how to do it, and most assuredly that if I had to "do it" it would be done in a heartbeat. When I walk out my door today I do not have a firearm on a belt. I do not mix looking like a bum with my 2nd amendment right to bear arms. If that offends some delicate politically correct person then in matter-of-fact English - TOUGH, deal with it. I have a lethal weapon prominently displayed fully secured to a close quarters combat duty belt in a 511 Thumb -"Lock" holster in the exact position I have practiced drawing, acquiring the target, placing the Crimson Trace laser in the best location for the situation and double-tapping it a thousand times. I choose to carry a 9 mm Glock 17 with 17 rounds in the magazine and NONE in the chamber thus by Utah law making it "legally not loaded". Having practiced "draw, chamber a round, acquire and fire" literally thousands of time I can only pray it is enough that if I ever had to in real life it would go as very well rehearsed. When I tire of practicing, or at a certified range following through to include live fire, I go over it all then rehearse it all in my mind then practice some more. I look like a law abiding citizen, I act like one, I communicate my intentions without speaking a word. I keep current on all applicable laws regarding the carrying of firearms, under what circumstances I may likely use a firearm, what I can expect when I do and what to do after it does happen. I accept the reality that making such choices means I will be treated pretty much like a criminal at first and it may take months to get my firearm back as the laws of our land come into play and even though 100% in the right I will walk the walk and do it gladly. I carry to protect innocent lives and by that very fact make my own the head of that list. I am also 100% resolved to the reality that all the practice, all the rehearsal, imaging scenarios that could happen in actual public places, always keeping in mind that innocent lives could be taken because high velocity bullets may not stop inside the intended target and line-of-sight can be altered by inches, that a lifetime of experience included and combined cannot guarantee that my decision to prevent a bad guys actions will not result in my own demise.

I choose not just open carry but open presentation, action, reaction, and absolute carry through if I have to.

The bad guy(s) have already decided they have no respect for the law, for innocent lives, for me, for anything to do with being part of a perceived societal norm. In the case of crimes of opportunity the bad guys have already decided they will indeed "conceal carry" until the instant they need to brandish a deadly weapon to perpetrate a felony act. They will not project an appearance of a law abiding citizen absolutely intent on doing good and innocent people will die. Just for a second - picture that.

Have your opinion whatever it may be. Dissect ideas and concepts into whatever tiny little piece of your reality fits your agenda and when the very Constitution of this great nation hangs by a thread you will remember that among us were many who knew something after all.

If the gun control fanatics from Obama (sadly I must include otherwise good and descent people who have been victims of gun related felonies yet are otherwise ignorant of the basic truth - guns don't kill people, people kill people) down to the ever increasing number of business owners who give in to the vocal minority and who choose to post a "NO FIREARMS ALLOWED" sign truly believe that taking firearms from the law abiding citizens - and as now seen in major retailers everywhere shelves recently filled with pistol and rifle ammo now empty - will create in the minds of criminally minded people a desire to be good law abiding citizens by these actions then they have given proof positive that they are educated beyond their intelligence, history will again repeat itself and the "silent majority" will not be heard saying, "I TOLD YOU SO" because we have always known that there are none so blind as they who will not see - none so deaf as they who will not hear.
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Re: Open Carry vs. Concealed Carry Poll

Postby mljdeckard » Tue 09 Jul 2013 10:03 am

Forgive me being the new guy who doesn't read all ten pages of the thread,

I open carry when I am doing outdoor things with outdoor people in the outdoors.

I do not believe that open carry has any net tactical disadvantage over concealed carry, I think that the deterrent effect is at least as likely ad any likelihood that you will DRAW aggression from being seen with a gun.

I am not ashamed of my rights. I will support anyone who wants to open carry. However, we have made a lot of progress in Utah lately, I think a lot of this has been so easy because the vast majority of people in Utah just DON'T CARE. I think it would be detrimental to give them a REASON to care. Open carry when you ride your ATV. I don't think it's a great idea for our cause as a whole to walk up and down 400 S in SLC past the coffe shops and giving the U of U peaceniks any ideas.
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Re: Open Carry vs. Concealed Carry Poll

Postby metalgimp » Fri 24 Jan 2014 6:44 pm

(I hope that this forum isn't stale, and some still read it.)

According to the law, one can open carry as long as they don't have a round in the chamber. But I can't determine how the law applies for those who conceal-carry. Could a round in the chamber be considered "concealed" then? The basic question is: with a CCL, can I open carry with a round in the chamber?

(If this has been covered, please point me to the place to read it.)
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Re: Open Carry vs. Concealed Carry Poll

Postby dewittdj » Fri 24 Jan 2014 6:59 pm

metalgimp wrote:(I hope that this forum isn't stale, and some still read it.)

According to the law, one can open carry as long as they don't have a round in the chamber. But I can't determine how the law applies for those who conceal-carry. Could a round in the chamber be considered "concealed" then? The basic question is: with a CCL, can I open carry with a round in the chamber?

(If this has been covered, please point me to the place to read it.)

With a Utah CFP, while in Utah, you can open carry anywhere that is not a restricted area, fully loaded, round in a chamber. You may neither open carry (OC) or concealed carry (CC) in any restricted area.

Restricted (Secure) areas:
Weapons in prohibited areas / circumstances:
1. 53-5-710, Cross References to Concealed Firearm Permit Restrictions
2. 76-8-311.1, Secured Areas – Firearms Prohibited
3. 76-8-311.3, Items prohibited in correctional and mental health facilities
4. 76-10-523, Persons Exempt from Weapons Laws
5. 76-10-529, Airports – Firearms Prohibited
6. 76-10-530, Trespass with a firearm in a house of worship or private residence

A person with a permit to carry a concealed firearm may not carry a concealed firearm
in the following locations:
(1) any secure area prescribed in Section 76-10-523.5 in which firearms are prohibited and notice of the prohibition posted;
(2) in any airport secure area as provided in Section 76-10-529; or
(3) in any house of worship or in any private residence where dangerous weapons are prohibited as provided in Section 76-10-530.

53-5-710. Cross-references to concealed firearm permit restrictions.
A person with a permit to carry a concealed firearm may not carry a concealed firearm in the following locations:
any secure area prescribed in Section 76-10-523.5 in which firearms are prohibited and notice of the prohibition posted;
(2) in any airport secure area as provided in Section 76-10-529; or
(3) in any house of worship or in any private residence where dangerous weapons are prohibited as provided in Section 76-10-530.

76-8-311.1. Secure areas -- Items prohibited – Penalty (cont.)

(2) (a) A person in charge of a correctional, law enforcement, or mental health facility may establish secure areas within the facility and may prohibit or control by rule any firearm, ammunition, dangerous weapon, or explosive.
(b) Subsections (2)(a), (3), (4), (5), and (6) apply to higher education secure area hearing rooms referred to in Subsections 53B-3-103(2)(a)(ii) and (b).

(3) At least one notice shall be prominently displayed at each entrance to an area in which a firearm, ammunition, dangerous weapon, or explosive is restricted.

(4) (a) Provisions shall be made to provide a secure weapons storage area so that persons entering the secure area may store their weapons prior to entering the secure area.
(b) The entity operating the facility shall be responsible for weapons while they are stored in the storage area.

76-10-523. Persons exempt from weapons laws.

(1) This part and Title 53, Chapter 5, Part 7, Concealed Weapon Act, do not apply to any of the following:
(a) a United States marshal;
(b) a federal official required to carry a firearm;
(c) a peace officer of this or any other jurisdiction;
(d) a law enforcement official as defined and qualified under Section 53-5-711;
(e) a judge as defined and qualified under Section 53-5-711;
(f) a common carrier while engaged in the regular and ordinary transport of firearms as merchandise; or
(g) a nonresident traveling in or through the state, provided that any firearm is:
(i) unloaded; and
(ii) securely encased as defined in Section 76-10-501.

(2) The provisions of Subsections 76-10-504(1)(a), (1)(b), and Section 76-10-505 do not apply to any person to whom a permit to carry a concealed firearm has been issued:
(a) pursuant to Section 53-5-704; or
(b) by another state or county.

76-10-504.  Carrying concealed dangerous weapon. – Penalties
76-10-505. Carrying loaded firearm in vehicle or on street. – Penalties


SUMMARY OF SECURED / PROHIBITED AREAS:
1. Airports secure areas
2. Court secure areas
3. Jail secure areas
4. Post Offices
5. Federal Buildings
6. Correctional and mental health facilities
7. A house of worship (after all posting and notification requirements have
been met)
8. A private residence if notice is given (verbal/posted sign)
9. Any area designated secure or otherwise prohibited by state or federal law
Last edited by dewittdj on Mon 27 Jan 2014 8:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Open Carry vs. Concealed Carry Poll

Postby metalgimp » Fri 24 Jan 2014 9:05 pm

(I get the feeling, DeWittJD, you've answered this several times.)

To be honest, I've read through the law several times, but perhaps it being indented funny and in courier typeface, I found it almost unreadable. Great presentation, thanks!

If I read correctly, in places like IKEA which has a ban on CC (I don't know if it is posted), carrying would be punishable by law. Am I correct in the interpretation? If so, some people who told me to "go ahead; I do it" may need to be warned.
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Re: Open Carry vs. Concealed Carry Poll

Postby althor » Fri 24 Jan 2014 9:26 pm

metalgimp wrote:(I get the feeling, DeWittJD, you've answered this several times.)

To be honest, I've read through the law several times, but perhaps it being indented funny and in courier typeface, I found it almost unreadable. Great presentation, thanks!

If I read correctly, in places like IKEA which has a ban on CC (I don't know if it is posted), carrying would be punishable by law. Am I correct in the interpretation? If so, some people who told me to "go ahead; I do it" may need to be warned.
no, you are not correct. IKEA it's not a secure area.

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Re: Open Carry vs. Concealed Carry Poll

Postby metalgimp » Fri 24 Jan 2014 9:34 pm

Let me ask a different way. If there's a business (not church) in which they have a "gun-free zone" policy, carrying in would not only be disrespectful, but also a lawful offense?
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Re: Open Carry vs. Concealed Carry Poll

Postby althor » Fri 24 Jan 2014 9:37 pm

metalgimp wrote:Let me ask a different way. If there's a business (not church) in which they have a "gun-free zone" policy, carrying in would not only be disrespectful, but also a lawful offense?


Again, not unlawful. I don't consider it disrespectful either but you may choose differently.

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Re: Open Carry vs. Concealed Carry Poll

Postby sypher » Fri 24 Jan 2014 9:39 pm

The only thing they can do is ask you to leave. If you don't then they can have you detained for trespass, not for carrying your firearm.
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Re: Open Carry vs. Concealed Carry Poll

Postby Volsung » Fri 24 Jan 2014 10:22 pm

metalgimp wrote:Let me ask a different way. If there's a business (not church) in which they have a "gun-free zone" policy, carrying in would not only be disrespectful, but also a lawful offense?

It is not against the law. As sypher said, the owner / manager / senior employee on shift can ask you to leave. If you choose not to, you may be charged with Criminal Trespass (76-6-206).
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Re: Open Carry vs. Concealed Carry Poll

Postby D-FIN » Mon 27 Jan 2014 12:51 am

Metalgimp: Any regular business may post a no guns sign if they wish but in Utah these signs carry no force of law for either CC or OC. If you OC and they notice you will likely be asked to leave in which case you must do so or you could be charged with trespass. If you CC no one is going know one way or the other and no laws are broken. I have not been to IKEA in a long time but I would carry there with no worries. In fact the only place I have been to where I cannot carry since I got my permit is the post office. I've carried in schools and hospitals many times.

The only places that are technically not illegal but hard to carry in would be places with metal detectors such as sporting events and concerts. Even then no law is broken. They can ask you to leave or to leave your weapon in your vehicle.
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Re: Open Carry vs. Concealed Carry Poll

Postby metalgimp » Tue 28 Jan 2014 1:15 pm

D-Fin:
I hear what you're saying, but with all the personal interpretations of the laws (by civilian and law enforcement alike), I feel like I'm dancing closer to the flames. Nobody gives a hoot when voicing your opinion (unless it's conservative), but something like carrying raises hackles on both sides of the aisle. It shouldn't, I now believe, but that's human.

For example, I went to the doctor a few days ago and was late, so I ended up carrying my firearm concealed into the office. Apprehensive doesn't say as much as I how I was feeling. I swore that they were going to find my blood pressure through the roof. Nope. Still I didn't want to offend them, and I kept my elbow tucked in to keep the handle from poking out. I've got a lousy holster for concealment. Fortunately no one noticed.

I found a suede inside-the-belt holster, but I hate suede: it just doesn't last. Another looked solid, but the pistol stuck more than I was comfortable with. Now I'm working on my own.
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