[muddy]

The risk is up to you. I suppose something would have to happen to your weapon and the law get involved before you will know what is what and what they decide to do. I have seen posts on here about guys leaving there weapon under the seat, in the center consoul or glove box both locked and unlocked. For me personally I use the COM type safe purchased from Cabela's. Its under the drivers seat and the cable is attached to the seat frame. It would take some prying to get into the box or a set of cable cutters to cut the cable. Its not just a smash and grab. I feel this protects my weapon and I am able to have my weapon with me coming and going from work as well as after work honey do's. The risk and choice is yours. You never posted what town you are working in and or the quality of the area so its hard to say weather the risk of leaving the weapon in your car is worth it or not. As to unloading the weapon its your choice.

 

[Snurd]

Even though I have a CFP, I would assume I would have to "securely encase" my firearm when entering the facility. Does this include unloading it or could I just lock it up? How much do I have to do before I'm not liable if it is stolen? Can I ever not be liable for a stolen firearm? :huh:

Personally I would just get a lockable (with a key) safe to put in the car. Which I did. I bought an in-car-safe from Center of Mass, LLC. You can either use the cable that comes with it to wrap around your car seat frame, much like muddy said, or it has a couple holes drilled in the bottom so that you can screw or bolt it down. Depending on what kind of vehicle you drive, either would be a good option. I have an SUV, so I don't really have anywhere that I can screw it down that would be easily accessible, and that wouldn't be noticed. If you have a car with a trunk, maybe you could screw it in somewhere in there, where it isn't easily seen, but easily accessible.
You wouldn't be responsible for a stolen gun. Just make sure you report it to the police. I would also recommend writing down the Serial number (if you haven't already) and give that to the police as well, so that if they find it they can get it back to you. Otherwise, you are pretty much SOL on getting it back.

 

[xRapidDavex]

I haven't posted the town because I don't feel it is relevant to the discussion. I believe crime can happen anywhere at any time, so it is never outside the realm of possibility to me that my firearm could be stolen from my vehicle.

I was under the impression a firearm had to be securely encased when you stepped out of your vehicle (locked and unloaded). Are you guys under the impression this is not the case?

 

[Snurd]

I haven't posted the town because I don't feel it is relevant to the discussion. I believe crime can happen anywhere at any time, so it is never outside the realm of possibility to me that my firearm could be stolen from my vehicle.

I was under the impression a firearm had to be securely encased when you stepped out of your vehicle (locked and unloaded). Are you guys under the impression this is not the case?

Do you mean if you were to take your gun in to work? or stepping out of your vehicle in general? If you mean taking it in to work, I would secure it before going on to the federal property. However, I would just leave it in the safe in my vehicle....

 

[xRapidDavex]

I mean anytime I ever step out of my vehicle and no one else is in it, must it be securely encased? Look at Utah Gun Law 3rd edition for the securely encased definition.

 

[Snurd]

The only thing that I can remember reading about a gun being in a car, is one of the new laws about parking lots. It says that the firearm cannot be in plain sight. I have not read anything that says that your gun needs to be securely locked up. However, it is a really good idea to do so. I was always really nervous to leave my gun in my vehicle when I didn't have a little safe in there. I would always unload it, and put the gun in one place, and the ammo somewhere else, not that it would really keep the BG from finding both, but at least it would take them more time to find both. If it is your vehicle, you are welcome to leave it unsecured. But I highly recommend getting some sort of locking box for it if you plan on leaving it in there. Otherwise throughout the day, probably the only thing you will be able to think about is your unsecured firearm. If I am wrong, I'm sure Divegeek will correct me, but I just did another glance at the law, and can't find anywhere it says it has to be secured if you are not in the vehicle. I don't have much time to really go over the laws right now, but I'll check on it later when I have more time.

 

[muddy]

I have not read or heard anything about your weapon needing to be encased and secure when you get out of your rig. For all I know you can leave it setting on the dash. I agree that crime can happen anywhere and anytime, I was trying to see what your risks are. Is the area relatively safe maybe you don't need to haul your gun around or is the office in the middle of gang land with crack houses next door, hookers getting shot and people bothering the employees. In this case it might be a good idea to have your pistol but then again there might be a chance it could get stolen.

Seams to me you are running scared, don't quite understand the law and would like someone to tell you what to do when ultimately its your decision and you must pay the consequences no matter what happens.

 

[Car Knocker]

How much do I have to do before I'm not liable if it is stolen? Can I ever not be liable for a stolen firearm? :huh:

Let me take a stab at this potion of your questions. If by liable you are referring to immunity from civil lawsuits as a result of criminal use of a firearm stolen from your vehicle, I'd have to say no, under current law you will possibly retain some liability. If the crime is sufficiently heinous and garners sufficient publicity or if it impacts a sufficiently sympathetic subject, it is likely that you will be sued for "negligently supplying the criminal with the means to commit his crime" or some such thing. The only way to positively remove liability would be for the Legislature to enact a law that would grant immunity from civil suits to firearms owners who are required to leave their firearms in their vehicles due to restrictions imposed by their employer or a landowner.

With the number of vehicle thefts and vehicle burglaries that occur annually in Utah, a reasonably competent plaintiff's attorney should be able to make a case that a prudent person should know better than to leave a deadly weapon in such an accessible location. A good defense attorney could counter that you used a series of layered strtegies to foil theft (if in fact you had), such as the firearm being in a locked case, attached to an immoveable object, hidden out of sight, in a locked vehicle, etc. And you may well prevail in this action. However, it's going to cost you, perhaps ruinously.

I suppose I should note that, in part, I played the Devil's advocate in my response but, in the litigous society in which we live, I don't think that we can altogether discount civil legal exposure in the case of injury or death that occurs with a weapon you own. It's ultimately up to the gun owner to decide what risks he's willing to take or not take.

 

[xRapidDavex]

That is completely dumb in my opinion because it wouldn't be an issue if the Federal Facility was required to provide lockers.

I'm not trying to get you guys to make a decision for me, I just want to know all the angles of the problem. To me, it seems stupid to unload the weapon if it is placed in a locked box.

Seams to me you are running scared, don't quite understand the law and would like someone to tell you what to do when ultimately its your decision and you must pay the consequences no matter what happens.

Isn't this forum about helping each other out? :huh: I don't understand why you're so angry. You're right, I don't understand everything about law. I'm also pulling 16 hour days and don't have the time to read my handbook again.

 

[Snurd]

That is completely dumb in my opinion because it wouldn't be an issue if the Federal Facility was required to provide lockers.

I'm not trying to get you guys to make a decision for me, I just want to know all the angles of the problem. To me, it seems stupid to unload the weapon if it is placed in a locked box.

If the lock box is in your car, you don't have to. If it's in your backpack, I would say you don't have to either, because if for some reason they find out about the gun in their building, you'll get heat for it either way. With the lock box I have in my vehicle, I'm not worried about unloading my firearm.